1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:12,074 Advertise your product or brand here contact www.OpenSubtitles.org today 2 00:00:36,312 --> 00:00:37,692 - Zach? Same place. - Ah, got ya. 3 00:00:37,727 --> 00:00:38,797 - Great. 4 00:00:38,831 --> 00:00:39,625 Yeah, is that okay? 5 00:00:39,660 --> 00:00:40,454 Okay. 6 00:00:40,488 --> 00:00:41,282 - Let me tune up real quick, 7 00:00:41,317 --> 00:00:42,214 make sure it's good. - Sure. 8 00:00:42,249 --> 00:00:44,492 - When I was a kid, I loved monsters. 9 00:00:44,527 --> 00:00:47,116 - My mom always let me watch monster movies. 10 00:00:47,150 --> 00:00:50,671 Of course, when I saw those books, I had never seen 11 00:00:50,705 --> 00:00:53,087 a children's book with drawings like that. 12 00:00:56,780 --> 00:00:58,955 I wouldn't be writing monster songs and creepy songs 13 00:00:58,989 --> 00:01:01,199 about death if it wasn't for books 14 00:01:01,233 --> 00:01:03,097 like Scary Stories to Tell In the Dark 15 00:01:03,132 --> 00:01:04,892 and the things that I enjoyed as a kid 16 00:01:04,926 --> 00:01:06,721 that influenced me and got me excited 17 00:01:06,756 --> 00:01:08,723 about songs about death. 18 00:01:08,758 --> 00:01:11,761 ♪ Don't ever laugh as a hearse goes by ♪ 19 00:01:11,795 --> 00:01:15,834 ♪ For you may be the next to die ♪ 20 00:01:15,868 --> 00:01:18,078 Well that first line obviously is just saying 21 00:01:18,112 --> 00:01:23,566 that we're all gonna die and death is what we're all 22 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,086 waiting for, death is what we want. 23 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,537 We just don't want to get there sooner than we have to. 24 00:01:29,572 --> 00:01:32,885 ♪ The worms play Pinochle on your snout ♪ 25 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,475 ♪ They eat your eyes, they eat your nose ♪ 26 00:01:36,510 --> 00:01:40,755 ♪ They eat the jelly between your toes ♪ 27 00:01:40,790 --> 00:01:45,277 Those lines, I think those lines are in every rendition 28 00:01:45,312 --> 00:01:46,589 of the hearse song. 29 00:01:46,623 --> 00:01:49,143 I think that was one no matter who's, 30 00:01:49,178 --> 00:01:51,052 'cause it's changed so much and everyone has their own 31 00:01:51,076 --> 00:01:52,743 version of it and you go to summer camp and kids 32 00:01:52,767 --> 00:01:56,150 make up new lyrics for it, but they pretty much all 33 00:01:56,185 --> 00:02:00,603 have that verse in it and Pinochle, 34 00:02:00,637 --> 00:02:02,536 I don't even know how to play that. 35 00:02:02,570 --> 00:02:04,193 I don't know if I know what it is. 36 00:02:04,227 --> 00:02:05,677 It's a card game? 37 00:02:05,711 --> 00:02:10,302 ♪ And that is the end of a perfect day ♪ 38 00:02:12,166 --> 00:02:14,075 It ends on a really happy note, so death doesn't have to 39 00:02:14,099 --> 00:02:16,653 be really a bad thing, it doesn't have to be. 40 00:02:16,688 --> 00:02:20,347 It's natural and it's good and at the end, 41 00:02:20,381 --> 00:02:23,557 we decay in our beautiful bodies and beautiful faces, 42 00:02:23,591 --> 00:02:25,628 start to droop and our eyes fall out 43 00:02:25,662 --> 00:02:29,459 and our chests cave in and the worms invite their friends 44 00:02:29,494 --> 00:02:34,223 to come party inside our bodies. 45 00:02:34,257 --> 00:02:36,397 It's a good thing, it's a good thing. 46 00:02:36,432 --> 00:02:38,503 We should teach our children it's a good thing. 47 00:03:01,353 --> 00:03:05,150 ♪ Don't ever laugh as the hearse goes by ♪ 48 00:03:05,185 --> 00:03:08,705 ♪ For you may be the next to die ♪ 49 00:03:08,740 --> 00:03:12,813 ♪ They'll wrap you up in a big white sheet ♪ 50 00:03:12,847 --> 00:03:16,610 ♪ From your head down to your feet ♪ 51 00:03:16,644 --> 00:03:21,649 ♪ They put you in a big black box and cover you up ♪ 52 00:03:22,098 --> 00:03:27,103 ♪ With dirt and rocks and all goes well for about a week ♪ 53 00:03:28,242 --> 00:03:32,281 ♪ And then your coffin begins to leak ♪ 54 00:03:32,315 --> 00:03:36,008 ♪ And the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out ♪ 55 00:03:36,043 --> 00:03:39,978 ♪ The worms play Pinochle on your snout ♪ 56 00:03:40,012 --> 00:03:44,051 ♪ They eat your eyes, they eat your nose ♪ 57 00:03:44,085 --> 00:03:48,262 ♪ They eat the jelly between your toes ♪ 58 00:03:48,297 --> 00:03:52,059 ♪ They invite their friends and their friends to ♪ 59 00:03:52,093 --> 00:03:56,270 ♪ They all come down to chew on you ♪ 60 00:03:56,305 --> 00:03:59,998 ♪ And this is what it is to die ♪ 61 00:04:00,032 --> 00:04:04,002 ♪ I hope you had a nice goodbye ♪ 62 00:04:04,036 --> 00:04:07,971 ♪ Did you ever think as a hearse goes by ♪ 63 00:04:08,006 --> 00:04:11,906 ♪ That you may be the next to die ♪ 64 00:04:11,941 --> 00:04:16,186 ♪ And your eyes fall out and your death decay ♪ 65 00:04:16,221 --> 00:04:20,812 ♪ And that is the end of a perfect day ♪ 66 00:04:32,237 --> 00:04:34,377 - It'll resonate with you on one level as a young kid 67 00:04:34,412 --> 00:04:36,759 and then when you go back and revisit those Stories 68 00:04:36,793 --> 00:04:39,934 as an adult, you appreciate totally different things 69 00:04:39,969 --> 00:04:41,395 that you never noticed when you were young. 70 00:04:41,419 --> 00:04:44,180 - Every kid from the '80s and '90s knew these stories. 71 00:04:44,214 --> 00:04:46,355 Ever sleepover we would tell these stories, 72 00:04:46,389 --> 00:04:48,184 long car trips, recess. 73 00:04:48,218 --> 00:04:50,842 - You had to sign up a couple weeks in advance 74 00:04:50,876 --> 00:04:52,326 if you wanted to get them. 75 00:04:52,361 --> 00:04:53,683 - I know it's the first place that I always shot to 76 00:04:53,707 --> 00:04:56,192 when I went to the library, was to look for these books 77 00:04:56,226 --> 00:04:58,850 on the shelves and every single copy looked like 78 00:04:58,884 --> 00:05:00,852 it has been worn out. 79 00:05:00,886 --> 00:05:03,820 - The Scary Stories book is my childhood, 80 00:05:03,855 --> 00:05:05,753 a very important part of my childhood. 81 00:05:05,788 --> 00:05:08,135 - They still have power now to adults I think, 82 00:05:08,169 --> 00:05:11,966 but to a kid they're just this perfect blend 83 00:05:12,001 --> 00:05:16,592 of frightening and mysterious 84 00:05:17,903 --> 00:05:19,974 and a little bit beautiful, I think. 85 00:05:20,009 --> 00:05:22,874 - I kinda felt like I had discovered something amazing 86 00:05:22,908 --> 00:05:25,601 and I had to share that with everybody. 87 00:05:25,635 --> 00:05:28,466 - Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark were a collection 88 00:05:28,500 --> 00:05:32,953 of three books that my dad wrote in the 1980s 89 00:05:32,987 --> 00:05:36,922 and early 1990s, emerged out of his interest in folklore, 90 00:05:36,957 --> 00:05:38,717 folk tales, folk humor. 91 00:05:38,752 --> 00:05:42,583 His efforts to capture that tradition in the United States 92 00:05:42,618 --> 00:05:46,346 and around the world for kids and now you have a generation 93 00:05:46,380 --> 00:05:48,900 of kids that grew up with these books who are now 94 00:05:48,934 --> 00:05:50,729 themselves adults and parents. 95 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,113 - Don't be scared! 96 00:05:55,147 --> 00:05:58,047 I'm the super sweet monster with the super sweet 97 00:05:58,081 --> 00:06:00,394 new cereal, Count Chocula! 98 00:06:00,429 --> 00:06:05,054 - Careful, he's the super sweet new cereal, Franken Berry. 99 00:06:07,436 --> 00:06:08,816 - Yuck! - Creepy Crawlers 100 00:06:08,851 --> 00:06:11,198 Thingmaker II, an electrical toy. 101 00:06:11,232 --> 00:06:14,028 - It's disgusting! - Creepy Crawlers 102 00:06:14,063 --> 00:06:15,098 Thingmaker II. 103 00:06:15,133 --> 00:06:18,136 - Has already received enough U.S. aid. 104 00:06:18,170 --> 00:06:21,173 Parents and teachers in a Seattle suburb will vote 105 00:06:21,208 --> 00:06:23,486 next week on a plan to ban three books 106 00:06:23,521 --> 00:06:25,902 from an elementary school library. 107 00:06:25,937 --> 00:06:27,017 Those who want to get rid of the books 108 00:06:27,041 --> 00:06:29,941 say they're just too gruesome for young readers. 109 00:06:29,975 --> 00:06:31,667 More from Susanna Frame. 110 00:06:31,701 --> 00:06:34,117 - I was upset by the graphic illustrations 111 00:06:34,152 --> 00:06:36,741 and violent stories. - Debate broke out here 112 00:06:36,775 --> 00:06:39,606 over death, the devil, and dismemberment, 113 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,402 all topics stemming from three thin books of folklore 114 00:06:42,436 --> 00:06:45,819 called the Scary Stories by Alvin Schwartz. 115 00:06:45,853 --> 00:06:47,417 - And sure, they're gonna be afraid of fires 116 00:06:47,441 --> 00:06:50,686 and drowning and strangers, but why do they have to live 117 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,560 with this fear that somebody's gonna chop 'em up 118 00:06:52,584 --> 00:06:54,137 and eat them? 119 00:06:54,172 --> 00:06:57,140 My name is Sandy Vrabel and I am a retired 120 00:06:57,175 --> 00:07:00,005 grandmother and mother. 121 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,422 I was PTA president at that time. 122 00:07:02,456 --> 00:07:04,458 How they were brought to my attention 123 00:07:04,493 --> 00:07:07,599 was I had several calls from parents. 124 00:07:07,634 --> 00:07:11,154 One of my neighbors, her son had brought home 125 00:07:11,189 --> 00:07:14,468 one of the Scary Stories and she said 126 00:07:14,503 --> 00:07:17,298 he was being very secretive, and he was in the third grade 127 00:07:17,333 --> 00:07:20,370 and she said, "Normally, he didn't have a problem 128 00:07:20,405 --> 00:07:23,788 "showing me his backpack, but that day he seemed 129 00:07:23,822 --> 00:07:28,448 "very mysterious, and later on when I went to say goodnight, 130 00:07:28,482 --> 00:07:32,382 "he was hiding under the covers with a flashlight." 131 00:07:40,149 --> 00:07:43,186 She asked him what he was looking at and he tried 132 00:07:43,221 --> 00:07:46,120 to hide the book, so that gave me an incentive then 133 00:07:46,155 --> 00:07:49,745 to definitely go talk to the librarian. 134 00:07:49,779 --> 00:07:52,506 So she got defensive and said I needed 135 00:07:52,541 --> 00:07:54,853 to go discuss it with the principal. 136 00:07:54,888 --> 00:07:58,754 He said to me, "Well, if you are really concerned about this 137 00:07:58,788 --> 00:08:03,413 "then what you may want to do is challenge the books." 138 00:08:03,448 --> 00:08:05,415 And then of course, it hit the Seattle media 139 00:08:05,450 --> 00:08:09,592 and then it just escalated from there and I thought 140 00:08:09,627 --> 00:08:13,182 oh my gosh, this is out of control. 141 00:08:13,216 --> 00:08:15,909 - Alvin was thrilled at the publicity he got 142 00:08:15,943 --> 00:08:18,774 from his books being banned in some places. 143 00:08:19,740 --> 00:08:22,225 He just thought that was wonderful so. 144 00:08:24,883 --> 00:08:28,715 Alvin had a number of different jobs with organizations, 145 00:08:28,749 --> 00:08:31,925 communications director, editor, he tried a number 146 00:08:31,959 --> 00:08:34,479 of different kinds of places. - Then he became 147 00:08:34,514 --> 00:08:38,448 a reporter, and I think was the formative experience 148 00:08:38,483 --> 00:08:43,281 as an adult in terms of his professional identity. 149 00:08:43,315 --> 00:08:45,559 He had the instincts, he had the skills, 150 00:08:45,594 --> 00:08:50,357 and the experiences of a really, very good journalist. 151 00:08:50,391 --> 00:08:52,773 - It think he loved reporting, inquiry, you know? 152 00:08:52,808 --> 00:08:56,605 It was all about finding the answer to a question he had, 153 00:08:56,639 --> 00:09:00,470 which was what makes this tick, why is this interesting? 154 00:09:00,505 --> 00:09:01,955 And he was a bulldog. 155 00:09:01,989 --> 00:09:03,577 He really knew how to do research. 156 00:09:03,612 --> 00:09:06,407 - My name is William Simmons Tyler. 157 00:09:06,442 --> 00:09:11,447 I was born in Bangor, Maine January 27, 1900. 158 00:09:12,793 --> 00:09:15,934 - What I am trying to do, I'm a writer 159 00:09:15,969 --> 00:09:19,731 and I've written about 25 books. 160 00:09:20,905 --> 00:09:23,493 I'm very interesting in folklore and folk life 161 00:09:23,528 --> 00:09:27,912 and what this book is is a book on growing up 162 00:09:27,946 --> 00:09:29,223 a long time ago. 163 00:09:29,258 --> 00:09:30,708 Did you have any children at all? 164 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:47,379 That's funny. 165 00:09:47,414 --> 00:09:49,209 I never heard that before. 166 00:09:49,243 --> 00:09:51,763 Where did you learn that? 167 00:09:51,798 --> 00:09:53,627 - Well, it's. - You just carried it 168 00:09:53,662 --> 00:09:54,662 around with you? 169 00:10:06,157 --> 00:10:08,169 - I do remember falling asleep to the sound of him typing 170 00:10:08,193 --> 00:10:10,713 on a manual typewriter in the next room. 171 00:10:10,748 --> 00:10:14,959 - You could imagine this progression of the seasons 172 00:10:14,993 --> 00:10:17,996 cinematically from spring, to summer, to fall, 173 00:10:18,031 --> 00:10:22,276 to winter, and the flowers blooming, the leaves turning 174 00:10:22,311 --> 00:10:25,659 and falling, the snow and my dad, it just was a constant. 175 00:10:25,694 --> 00:10:28,075 You could always just see him in there working away. 176 00:10:28,110 --> 00:10:30,491 My dad was writing other books at the time. 177 00:10:30,526 --> 00:10:33,771 He lived through his advances on books, 178 00:10:33,805 --> 00:10:37,844 so he really needed to have a steady flow of projects 179 00:10:37,878 --> 00:10:40,812 and I think that indicates that he himself 180 00:10:40,847 --> 00:10:45,161 and his publishers and agent, they didn't really realize, 181 00:10:45,196 --> 00:10:47,025 which I think is often true with books, 182 00:10:47,060 --> 00:10:52,030 is you can't predict which books are gonna be successful 183 00:10:52,065 --> 00:10:53,791 and which aren't. 184 00:10:53,825 --> 00:10:56,932 He didn't have a clear sense for many years 185 00:10:56,966 --> 00:10:58,588 that these were gonna have the effect 186 00:10:58,623 --> 00:10:59,969 that they did. - We really didn't 187 00:11:00,004 --> 00:11:02,972 have very much money, so it was kind of touch 188 00:11:03,007 --> 00:11:05,354 and go for a while there. 189 00:11:05,388 --> 00:11:06,976 - In his lifetime as an author, 190 00:11:07,011 --> 00:11:12,016 he wrote, over a 30-year period, he wrote over 50 books. 191 00:11:12,326 --> 00:11:14,052 So there were a lot of books. 192 00:11:14,087 --> 00:11:17,331 Some were successful, some weren't and these he wrote 193 00:11:17,366 --> 00:11:19,851 in the last 10 years of his life and I think 194 00:11:22,751 --> 00:11:27,169 he didn't actually live to see most of the success. 195 00:11:27,203 --> 00:11:30,862 When I was little and my dad was really just starting out 196 00:11:30,897 --> 00:11:33,416 as a book writer and he was writing these books 197 00:11:33,451 --> 00:11:37,455 about, more for adults about how to raise children, 198 00:11:37,489 --> 00:11:41,701 is really about how he trained himself or tried 199 00:11:41,735 --> 00:11:44,496 to train himself to be a father, 200 00:11:44,531 --> 00:11:45,991 growing up in an environment where his parents 201 00:11:46,015 --> 00:11:48,742 were just literally the worst role model. 202 00:11:48,777 --> 00:11:51,124 I mean, he really didn't know anything 203 00:11:51,158 --> 00:11:54,196 and it's interesting that he would then 204 00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:56,992 pose as an expert in these books. 205 00:11:57,026 --> 00:12:01,306 So this is one that I just pulled out. 206 00:12:01,341 --> 00:12:06,380 That's when I was about six years old 207 00:12:06,415 --> 00:12:10,695 and, or five years old and he was probably 35. 208 00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:13,905 He took us out there one day and he makes it clear 209 00:12:13,940 --> 00:12:17,564 in more than one book that he hated stuff like fishing, 210 00:12:17,598 --> 00:12:18,530 didn't really know anything about it, 211 00:12:18,565 --> 00:12:22,189 between this was an example of an activity 212 00:12:22,224 --> 00:12:24,260 that one could do with your children, 213 00:12:24,295 --> 00:12:25,548 and so he took me and my brother. 214 00:12:25,572 --> 00:12:27,160 That's my brother, he's two years older 215 00:12:27,194 --> 00:12:29,749 and that's me, and you can see the few little sunfish 216 00:12:29,783 --> 00:12:34,512 that my brother caught and he's holding our hand. 217 00:12:34,546 --> 00:12:38,619 Anyway, that was a photo that I've had on my desk 218 00:12:40,104 --> 00:12:41,795 a lot of my adult life. 219 00:12:41,830 --> 00:12:48,802 And then this is a photo of, he only met my oldest son, 220 00:12:49,527 --> 00:12:54,532 his first grandchild once, and this was around Christmas 221 00:12:55,775 --> 00:12:59,709 of 1991, so right around the time 222 00:12:59,744 --> 00:13:02,264 of this controversy at Kirkland and he had been going 223 00:13:02,298 --> 00:13:06,337 through chemotherapy for lymphoma, which is why 224 00:13:06,371 --> 00:13:09,478 he's totally bald, but had been declared cured. 225 00:13:09,512 --> 00:13:12,930 So he's there with my brother holding Daniel. 226 00:13:12,964 --> 00:13:16,243 I had friends whose parents were more conventional 227 00:13:16,278 --> 00:13:20,800 and successful professionally and had more money, 228 00:13:20,834 --> 00:13:25,908 so they were doctors or professors and it was easier 229 00:13:25,943 --> 00:13:30,948 as a kid to assess what that meant in terms of status 230 00:13:31,293 --> 00:13:34,296 than it was when I had to say my father wrote 231 00:13:34,330 --> 00:13:37,368 these weird books, and they all seemed odd to me. 232 00:13:37,402 --> 00:13:40,336 None of them were books I really would have read myself. 233 00:13:40,371 --> 00:13:43,408 This photo is one that I had for many years. 234 00:13:43,443 --> 00:13:45,307 It's from 1986. 235 00:13:45,341 --> 00:13:49,587 It's actually, he's there the same age that I am now. 236 00:13:49,621 --> 00:13:53,039 I don't know if you see a resemblance or not. 237 00:13:53,073 --> 00:13:55,869 So, and at the time, again, as I said, 238 00:13:55,904 --> 00:14:00,840 at the time I was 29 and I was pretty estranged from him. 239 00:14:01,841 --> 00:14:04,119 I was about to get married, a year later 240 00:14:04,153 --> 00:14:08,571 I would get married, but he had to have this photo taken 241 00:14:08,606 --> 00:14:10,815 for professional reasons, and he's there, 242 00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:12,437 he's actually leaning against the wall 243 00:14:12,472 --> 00:14:13,680 of the Firestone Library 244 00:14:14,750 --> 00:14:19,755 and his inscription was, "To Peter from his distant dad," 245 00:14:20,376 --> 00:14:24,484 which is basically his commentary on our relationship. 246 00:14:29,730 --> 00:14:31,836 - Okay kids, 247 00:14:31,871 --> 00:14:34,735 let's quiet down now, quiet down. 248 00:14:37,117 --> 00:14:39,095 So this is a song that I think you've all heard before. 249 00:14:39,119 --> 00:14:40,293 It is one of my favorites, 250 00:14:40,327 --> 00:14:42,778 especially around this time of year. 251 00:14:42,812 --> 00:14:47,783 ♪ There was an old woman, all skin and bones ♪ 252 00:14:49,233 --> 00:14:51,062 ♪ Ooh 253 00:14:54,963 --> 00:14:59,105 - Not bad, but let's pay attention to the melody. 254 00:14:59,139 --> 00:15:02,211 ♪ Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh 255 00:15:08,355 --> 00:15:13,326 ♪ There was an old woman, all skin and bones, ooh ♪ 256 00:15:17,192 --> 00:15:22,128 ♪ She lived down by the old graveyard, ooh ♪ 257 00:15:32,862 --> 00:15:35,589 - If you write scary books, they expect you to have fangs 258 00:15:35,624 --> 00:15:39,662 or wear a cape or something, and then I walk out. 259 00:15:39,697 --> 00:15:43,011 I'm this old guy, and it's disappointing to them, I think. 260 00:15:43,045 --> 00:15:45,703 And I've gotten to know a lot of horror writers 261 00:15:45,737 --> 00:15:49,086 and my experience is that they're all pretty quiet, 262 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,365 normal people, they just like to write, 263 00:15:52,399 --> 00:15:54,229 like to make up stories. 264 00:16:11,694 --> 00:16:14,007 - For me, the '80s and the '90s, 265 00:16:14,042 --> 00:16:17,769 that was a golden age of children's books 266 00:16:17,804 --> 00:16:19,875 and particularly children's horror, 267 00:16:19,909 --> 00:16:22,464 then along came Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark 268 00:16:22,498 --> 00:16:26,295 and kids just couldn't seem to get enough. 269 00:16:26,330 --> 00:16:28,953 Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, 270 00:16:28,988 --> 00:16:32,232 that's the gold standard. 271 00:16:32,267 --> 00:16:34,303 - We were even before Goosebumps 272 00:16:34,338 --> 00:16:36,236 when we started writing the Adventures of Bailey 273 00:16:36,271 --> 00:16:39,515 School Kids' books, they were pretty uncharted 274 00:16:39,550 --> 00:16:41,897 territory if you would, especially for the chapter book 275 00:16:41,931 --> 00:16:43,278 level that we were writing for. 276 00:16:43,312 --> 00:16:45,383 Marcia was a teacher and I was a librarian, 277 00:16:45,418 --> 00:16:48,628 and we felt like if anybody is safe presenting this sort 278 00:16:48,662 --> 00:16:52,873 of material to children, a teacher and a librarian 279 00:16:52,908 --> 00:16:57,016 would protect children from anything that would be too scary 280 00:16:57,050 --> 00:16:59,363 or too horrifying, so they felt pretty comfortable 281 00:16:59,397 --> 00:17:02,400 launching their first scary chapter book series 282 00:17:02,435 --> 00:17:04,816 with a teacher and a librarian. 283 00:17:06,611 --> 00:17:08,337 - Think about the setting. 284 00:17:08,372 --> 00:17:11,202 Most kids will say haunted house, graveyard, 285 00:17:11,237 --> 00:17:15,206 but the most scary settings are those that are normal 286 00:17:15,241 --> 00:17:20,246 settings like a swimming pool, an amusement park, 287 00:17:22,731 --> 00:17:25,561 something that is familiar that somehow turns scary 288 00:17:25,596 --> 00:17:29,048 and that really gets them thinking about setting 289 00:17:29,082 --> 00:17:33,224 and I think it really enhances their ability 290 00:17:33,259 --> 00:17:35,088 to appreciate literature, 291 00:17:35,123 --> 00:17:37,090 and that's what it's all about. 292 00:17:58,007 --> 00:18:00,941 - People call me Stephen King for kids 293 00:18:00,976 --> 00:18:03,392 and actually, I'm very flattered by that. 294 00:18:03,427 --> 00:18:06,740 Last year at the Edgar Awards in New York, 295 00:18:06,775 --> 00:18:08,397 there he was across the room, 296 00:18:08,432 --> 00:18:12,539 so this is my chance after 30 years and we went over 297 00:18:12,574 --> 00:18:16,129 and introduced ourselves and introduced our wives 298 00:18:16,164 --> 00:18:20,168 and I said, "Steve, you know, I was once called 299 00:18:20,202 --> 00:18:22,549 "a training bra for you." 300 00:18:22,584 --> 00:18:24,482 And he said, "Yes, I know 301 00:18:26,933 --> 00:18:29,315 Well, part of Alvin Schwartz's brilliance 302 00:18:29,349 --> 00:18:32,904 was that he took all these old folk legends, 303 00:18:32,939 --> 00:18:37,944 and myths, and old stories and made them readable for kids. 304 00:18:38,358 --> 00:18:43,087 He used what the stories were, but he was able to write 305 00:18:43,122 --> 00:18:45,779 in a way that really related to kids, 306 00:18:45,814 --> 00:18:48,679 and I think that's his particular genius. 307 00:18:52,027 --> 00:18:56,031 - It was October of 1994, Halloween season. 308 00:18:56,065 --> 00:19:01,070 I had made a display of all the great Halloween stories 309 00:19:01,519 --> 00:19:02,934 for children to check out. 310 00:19:02,969 --> 00:19:04,936 The books were flying off the shelves. 311 00:19:04,971 --> 00:19:08,871 Children love Halloween season because of the great books. 312 00:19:09,769 --> 00:19:14,394 One day, the superintendent of my elementary school 313 00:19:14,429 --> 00:19:18,433 arrived with Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark 314 00:19:18,467 --> 00:19:19,467 under his arm. 315 00:19:20,538 --> 00:19:23,403 He said, "Miriam, I want you to take this book 316 00:19:23,438 --> 00:19:24,542 "off the shelf." 317 00:19:25,819 --> 00:19:27,200 Well, I was really shocked. 318 00:19:27,235 --> 00:19:30,203 Why would you want to take this book off the shelf? 319 00:19:30,238 --> 00:19:31,825 He said, "A mother complained." 320 00:19:31,860 --> 00:19:34,069 He said, "She thinks this isn't appropriate 321 00:19:34,103 --> 00:19:36,416 "for elementary school kids." 322 00:19:36,451 --> 00:19:38,246 I said, "Have you read it?" 323 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,351 He said, "No, I didn't read it." 324 00:19:40,386 --> 00:19:44,044 He said, "You got 10,000 books in this library. 325 00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:45,701 "Just do this with me." 326 00:19:45,736 --> 00:19:48,877 And I said, "Well, I don't think I'm gonna do that. 327 00:19:48,911 --> 00:19:52,052 "What I'm gonna do is this, I'm gonna check the book out 328 00:19:52,087 --> 00:19:56,471 "to you and I am going to read it myself. 329 00:19:56,505 --> 00:19:59,888 "We'll just give ourselves a little time to read it." 330 00:19:59,922 --> 00:20:02,546 I thought well, what this was doing was giving me time 331 00:20:02,580 --> 00:20:04,444 to check up on what I needed to do 332 00:20:04,479 --> 00:20:06,791 because this was the first real incident 333 00:20:06,826 --> 00:20:10,070 that I had ever had as a librarian 334 00:20:10,105 --> 00:20:14,109 that might end up at the school board. 335 00:20:20,219 --> 00:20:22,876 - I haven't really looked at these books since then. 336 00:20:22,911 --> 00:20:27,916 Just looking back at these pictures makes me remember 337 00:20:28,365 --> 00:20:31,437 why I think they're just so creepy. 338 00:20:31,471 --> 00:20:33,956 Yeah, I mean, , this story, Harold, 339 00:20:33,991 --> 00:20:36,269 I remember that one. 340 00:20:37,719 --> 00:20:39,824 The illustrations are probably, like I said, 341 00:20:39,859 --> 00:20:41,585 the most frightening part of these. 342 00:20:42,482 --> 00:20:45,416 Uh, yeah. 343 00:20:45,451 --> 00:20:49,869 - Alvin always had the final say with his publishers 344 00:20:49,903 --> 00:20:53,321 as to who would illustrate any book he wrote, 345 00:20:53,355 --> 00:20:56,669 so he was presented by his publisher 346 00:20:56,703 --> 00:20:59,361 with some work that Stephen Gammell had done 347 00:20:59,396 --> 00:21:01,156 and he really was very impressed with that 348 00:21:01,190 --> 00:21:04,435 and he wanted Stephen Gammell to illustrate 349 00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:09,475 his Scary Stories books and a really, really big part 350 00:21:10,545 --> 00:21:14,100 of the success of those books were the illustrations. 351 00:21:14,134 --> 00:21:15,722 - This is a series of books that opens 352 00:21:15,757 --> 00:21:17,828 with an image of a severed head hanging 353 00:21:17,862 --> 00:21:20,244 off of a clothesline and all of this stark black 354 00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:24,144 and white Halloween-ish, clouds on a gray October day vibe 355 00:21:24,179 --> 00:21:25,422 that really stuck in your head. 356 00:21:25,456 --> 00:21:26,882 Everybody remembers the illustrations 357 00:21:26,906 --> 00:21:29,391 just as well as they remember the stories. 358 00:21:29,426 --> 00:21:31,911 - From a story, I think, called the Haunted House, 359 00:21:31,945 --> 00:21:36,156 which has a woman with eye sockets. 360 00:21:36,191 --> 00:21:38,469 - She's missing her eyes, you just see these deep, 361 00:21:38,504 --> 00:21:41,161 gaping eye sockets, her teeth all are all rotted 362 00:21:41,196 --> 00:21:44,475 her hair is stringy and wet and disgusting looking. 363 00:21:44,510 --> 00:21:46,512 - And she's looking straight at you 364 00:21:46,546 --> 00:21:51,517 and making it so difficult to read the words 365 00:21:51,551 --> 00:21:53,104 on the other page. 366 00:21:53,139 --> 00:21:55,279 Finally, to get through that story, 367 00:21:55,314 --> 00:21:57,971 I had to actually put another book over the picture 368 00:21:58,006 --> 00:22:01,181 so that I could read the page and finally finish 369 00:22:01,216 --> 00:22:03,114 the story and I found it to be very, 370 00:22:03,149 --> 00:22:06,739 both beautiful and sad at the same time. 371 00:22:07,705 --> 00:22:09,604 I've heard it referred to as the picture 372 00:22:09,638 --> 00:22:12,641 that shat 1,000 pants 373 00:22:13,262 --> 00:22:17,991 - It's this very strange, pale, bloated figure 374 00:22:18,026 --> 00:22:23,031 with this wide, eerie smile and beady eyes 375 00:22:23,376 --> 00:22:25,620 and creepy hair and it's just looking right at you, 376 00:22:25,654 --> 00:22:29,486 and even as an adult, I can't look at that one for too long. 377 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,385 I'm a little afraid it's going to move. 378 00:22:32,420 --> 00:22:34,525 - You see the pictures at the top of the story, 379 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,400 so before you even read it, it's setting you up 380 00:22:36,424 --> 00:22:40,531 and it's a woman in a bridle gown curled up 381 00:22:40,566 --> 00:22:43,051 and she has this horrible expression on her face. 382 00:22:43,085 --> 00:22:44,580 She's like, a skeleton and her mouth's open 383 00:22:44,604 --> 00:22:46,503 and her eyes are gone. 384 00:22:46,537 --> 00:22:47,928 I think part of it is yes, a fear of small spaces, 385 00:22:47,952 --> 00:22:52,025 but it's also just that expression on her face 386 00:22:52,060 --> 00:22:54,856 or what's left of her face grabs you. 387 00:22:54,890 --> 00:22:56,823 - The illustration that stands out the most 388 00:22:56,858 --> 00:22:58,825 to me is The Thing. 389 00:22:58,860 --> 00:23:03,002 You see in this shriveled, zombie-like face, 390 00:23:03,036 --> 00:23:06,005 you see the eyes very clearly and they're just staring 391 00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:08,076 right at you. - Stephen Gammell's 392 00:23:08,110 --> 00:23:10,768 illustrations frequently look directly at the reader, 393 00:23:10,803 --> 00:23:13,150 meeting them eye-to-eye. 394 00:23:13,184 --> 00:23:15,946 That breaking of the fourth wall is fun in itself, 395 00:23:18,017 --> 00:23:21,261 but one of the things that makes that extra effective 396 00:23:21,296 --> 00:23:23,274 in horror is because there's this longstanding idea 397 00:23:23,298 --> 00:23:27,095 in horror that if you can't see it, it can't see you. 398 00:23:27,129 --> 00:23:28,728 It's the reason why children pull blankets 399 00:23:28,752 --> 00:23:30,719 over their heads. 400 00:23:30,754 --> 00:23:32,341 When these horrors are looking at you, 401 00:23:32,376 --> 00:23:34,827 they can see you and they know that you can see them, 402 00:23:34,861 --> 00:23:37,416 so it makes them more likely to come out of the book 403 00:23:37,450 --> 00:23:39,048 and get you, or at least makes it more likely to feel 404 00:23:39,072 --> 00:23:40,867 like they're going to, which is important 405 00:23:40,902 --> 00:23:42,628 when it comes to horror. 406 00:23:42,662 --> 00:23:44,595 When the books came out in the 1980s, 407 00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:46,563 they were illustrated by Stephen Gammell. 408 00:23:46,597 --> 00:23:48,772 If you go on the internet, you will find tons of people 409 00:23:48,806 --> 00:23:51,671 posting their favorite scary pictures from the books 410 00:23:51,706 --> 00:23:52,821 to try to terrify more people. 411 00:23:52,845 --> 00:23:55,364 However, a few years back when they did a big 412 00:23:55,399 --> 00:23:58,506 anniversary release, they have new art. 413 00:23:58,540 --> 00:24:00,369 All over the internet people were talking 414 00:24:00,404 --> 00:24:03,580 about this new release ruining their childhood, 415 00:24:03,614 --> 00:24:05,616 so the stories weren't the same without the artwork 416 00:24:05,651 --> 00:24:09,482 and these new pieces of art, which are very attractive 417 00:24:09,517 --> 00:24:11,149 pieces of art just wouldn't give them the nightmares 418 00:24:11,173 --> 00:24:13,521 that they expected from a Scary Stories book. 419 00:24:13,555 --> 00:24:16,731 There was initially a run on the now out of print, 420 00:24:16,765 --> 00:24:18,629 original illustrations copies 421 00:24:18,664 --> 00:24:20,424 that lead to Amazon Marketplace prices 422 00:24:20,459 --> 00:24:24,117 of hundreds of dollars for one paperback, 423 00:24:24,152 --> 00:24:25,981 beaten up old book. 424 00:24:27,258 --> 00:24:30,572 - It gave me that early sense of the power 425 00:24:30,607 --> 00:24:31,815 an image could have. 426 00:24:31,849 --> 00:24:33,782 I've talked to a lot of other illustrators, 427 00:24:33,817 --> 00:24:36,302 particularly comic artists who've said similar things, 428 00:24:36,336 --> 00:24:38,338 that they really have strong, 429 00:24:38,373 --> 00:24:40,893 vivid memories of seeing these images 430 00:24:40,927 --> 00:24:43,827 and these illustrations and they have left 431 00:24:43,861 --> 00:24:45,207 some mark on them. 432 00:24:45,242 --> 00:24:48,521 - It started out as just going to be a simple display. 433 00:24:48,556 --> 00:24:50,627 Thinking about the second book, 434 00:24:50,661 --> 00:24:53,492 it started becoming larger and larger. 435 00:25:04,054 --> 00:25:06,332 I created the tribute to the books 436 00:25:06,366 --> 00:25:10,267 simply because it was a major part of my childhood. 437 00:25:10,301 --> 00:25:12,476 It was something that I'd always wanted to see 438 00:25:12,511 --> 00:25:15,341 in three-dimensional form. 439 00:25:15,375 --> 00:25:17,101 A lot of natural elements went into it 440 00:25:17,136 --> 00:25:21,071 just to make it as realistic as I possibly could, 441 00:25:21,105 --> 00:25:24,315 but stay true to the actual books. 442 00:25:24,350 --> 00:25:27,595 He could just transform into these incredible 443 00:25:27,629 --> 00:25:31,875 atmospheres with just a simple pen stroke. 444 00:25:46,303 --> 00:25:48,788 - Actually adapting the illustrations into photos 445 00:25:48,823 --> 00:25:53,931 is bizarre and kind of hilarious 446 00:25:53,966 --> 00:25:56,002 because obviously I don't 447 00:25:56,037 --> 00:25:59,868 have a skeleton-like bride to photograph. 448 00:25:59,903 --> 00:26:02,388 I knew I wanted to start with people. 449 00:26:02,422 --> 00:26:05,184 I thought it would be more realistic 450 00:26:05,218 --> 00:26:08,497 and a better adaption to start with people 451 00:26:08,532 --> 00:26:10,707 and try to get them to end up 452 00:26:10,741 --> 00:26:13,192 looking like the illustrations. 453 00:26:22,788 --> 00:26:25,860 - And to create the Scary Stories sculpture 454 00:26:25,894 --> 00:26:28,517 I've been working on, I've been using oil clay. 455 00:26:28,552 --> 00:26:30,796 It allows you to take a lot more time to do it, 456 00:26:30,830 --> 00:26:33,868 really wanted to explore this medium a little more 457 00:26:33,902 --> 00:26:35,628 'cause this is what they make the monsters 458 00:26:35,663 --> 00:26:37,975 out of in the movies. 459 00:26:38,010 --> 00:26:41,047 I decided to sculpt the cover of the third book 460 00:26:41,082 --> 00:26:42,393 in the series. 461 00:26:42,428 --> 00:26:44,406 They were their own entity floating in space like that 462 00:26:44,430 --> 00:26:48,123 and at the same time, they were so versatile 463 00:26:48,158 --> 00:26:52,127 in their textures in their completion. 464 00:26:52,162 --> 00:26:55,855 - All these shingles are hand cut and hand glued in place. 465 00:26:55,890 --> 00:27:00,722 The trees were built from tree roots and just branches 466 00:27:00,757 --> 00:27:04,726 that were painted and covered in black hot glue 467 00:27:04,761 --> 00:27:06,763 to create the nice sort of tendrils 468 00:27:06,797 --> 00:27:09,697 that Gammell likes to give to everything. 469 00:27:11,146 --> 00:27:12,769 - I pretty much immediately realized 470 00:27:12,803 --> 00:27:14,263 that it was gonna be much more challenging 471 00:27:14,287 --> 00:27:16,289 than I initially thought. 472 00:27:16,324 --> 00:27:17,922 It's difficult, especially when you're going 473 00:27:17,946 --> 00:27:20,190 off of something so iconic and direct 474 00:27:20,224 --> 00:27:23,676 like the images in the book. 475 00:27:23,711 --> 00:27:25,689 There's a lot left to the imagination and there's a lot 476 00:27:25,713 --> 00:27:29,199 to interpret there and I learned a lot about his process 477 00:27:29,233 --> 00:27:32,271 and his thinking to line up this one, 478 00:27:32,305 --> 00:27:35,446 two-dimensional image, you have to step back 479 00:27:35,481 --> 00:27:37,586 and look at it, and on the sketch 480 00:27:37,621 --> 00:27:40,900 you see a mound over here on this guy 481 00:27:40,935 --> 00:27:43,800 and it's like, how am I gonna 482 00:27:43,834 --> 00:27:45,836 make that happen? - Blending the actual 483 00:27:45,871 --> 00:27:47,907 head into the ground, 484 00:27:47,942 --> 00:27:50,151 that was probably the most difficult part 485 00:27:50,185 --> 00:27:51,739 because the way it looks in the book, 486 00:27:51,773 --> 00:27:53,361 it looks a little bit different 487 00:27:53,395 --> 00:27:55,225 than what I could actually do. 488 00:27:55,259 --> 00:27:56,892 To me, what it always looked like and what I always 489 00:27:56,916 --> 00:27:58,918 thought it was was the head was actually growing 490 00:27:58,953 --> 00:28:00,817 out of the ground. 491 00:28:00,851 --> 00:28:03,060 It was like a piece of the ground 492 00:28:03,095 --> 00:28:05,822 that was literally growing next to the barn. 493 00:28:08,859 --> 00:28:11,379 - I had been doing wedding photography 494 00:28:11,413 --> 00:28:14,762 and portrait photography for so long, 495 00:28:14,796 --> 00:28:17,972 for almost 10 years. 496 00:28:18,006 --> 00:28:20,733 You get really tired doing the same repetitive shot 497 00:28:20,768 --> 00:28:24,806 in the same happy setting with the same sun flare 498 00:28:24,841 --> 00:28:28,292 and I love doing the colorful work, 499 00:28:28,327 --> 00:28:30,398 but I knew it wasn't what was true to my heart 500 00:28:30,432 --> 00:28:34,851 and I was really longing to just do something 501 00:28:34,885 --> 00:28:38,302 so opposite, so drained of color 502 00:28:38,337 --> 00:28:41,305 and just kind of shocking, but still really true 503 00:28:41,340 --> 00:28:42,582 to who I am. 504 00:28:42,617 --> 00:28:45,309 I always had those stories in the back of my mind 505 00:28:45,344 --> 00:28:50,211 and I finally just decided I have to choose 506 00:28:50,245 --> 00:28:54,284 these really small windows in my time to just finally do it 507 00:28:54,318 --> 00:28:56,217 and it was close to Halloween and I thought 508 00:28:56,251 --> 00:28:58,564 it was a perfect time to devote 509 00:28:58,598 --> 00:28:59,634 the time to doing it. 510 00:29:09,817 --> 00:29:14,822 I have a really strong attachment to the books 511 00:29:15,823 --> 00:29:18,239 I read when I was a kid. 512 00:29:18,273 --> 00:29:21,794 I was convinced that I was illiterate. 513 00:29:21,829 --> 00:29:24,590 My teachers made me feel awful for the fact 514 00:29:24,624 --> 00:29:27,731 that the books they assigned us, I never finished 515 00:29:27,766 --> 00:29:32,701 and I remember we had a reading chart in our classroom 516 00:29:32,736 --> 00:29:34,807 where when you finished a book, you got a gold star 517 00:29:34,842 --> 00:29:36,854 on your name and I got really insecure that all the other 518 00:29:36,878 --> 00:29:39,225 kids had so many gold stars. 519 00:29:39,260 --> 00:29:42,228 Here I was with like, three measly gold starts 520 00:29:42,263 --> 00:29:45,749 which I'm pretty sure I lied about reading those books 521 00:29:45,784 --> 00:29:48,614 to get those gold stars 'cause I felt so insecure. 522 00:29:48,648 --> 00:29:52,549 So it was the first book that I felt like, 523 00:29:52,583 --> 00:29:54,931 not only am I so into this book, but I'm gonna finish 524 00:29:54,965 --> 00:29:57,968 this book and I'm gonna get that gold star. 525 00:29:58,003 --> 00:30:02,593 - As a kid, your imagination is all you have to get by. 526 00:30:02,628 --> 00:30:06,908 It's like, as a young artist, it was validation 527 00:30:06,943 --> 00:30:10,532 to keep exploring this type of, that this avenue 528 00:30:10,567 --> 00:30:13,052 was okay to pursue. 529 00:30:13,087 --> 00:30:16,815 - I feel like their mind and I see someone else 530 00:30:16,849 --> 00:30:20,749 doing an ode to them, I'm like oh, but it's my thing, 531 00:30:20,784 --> 00:30:24,374 it was my childhood! - Imagining his incredible 532 00:30:24,408 --> 00:30:27,135 artwork, that was probably the pinnacle 533 00:30:27,170 --> 00:30:32,175 of the toughest task I had ever, ever tried to create. 534 00:30:32,831 --> 00:30:36,938 I mean, you can't get close to what he presented. 535 00:30:36,973 --> 00:30:41,840 That's his work, that is his absolute work, 536 00:30:41,874 --> 00:30:44,670 that's his style, that's what he created 537 00:30:44,704 --> 00:30:47,017 and trying to go off of that, 538 00:30:47,052 --> 00:30:48,743 it was just damn near impossible. 539 00:30:57,994 --> 00:31:02,101 - Even Gammell remains a figure of much interest 540 00:31:02,136 --> 00:31:03,931 and mystery to everyone. 541 00:31:03,965 --> 00:31:06,140 He's a very private person, 542 00:31:06,174 --> 00:31:09,039 and so there are really no extant interviews 543 00:31:09,074 --> 00:31:10,489 available with him. 544 00:31:10,523 --> 00:31:15,528 He doesn't give interviews, but we do have an interview 545 00:31:15,874 --> 00:31:17,772 he did do many, many years ago. 546 00:31:17,806 --> 00:31:20,361 He tells you not everything about him, 547 00:31:20,395 --> 00:31:21,914 but it gives you a bit of a window 548 00:31:21,949 --> 00:31:23,778 into who Stephen Gammell is. 549 00:31:24,675 --> 00:31:26,919 The first time I read a manuscript, I can immediately tell 550 00:31:26,954 --> 00:31:28,990 whether I want to illustrate it. 551 00:31:29,025 --> 00:31:31,855 I may not know how the illustrations will look, 552 00:31:31,890 --> 00:31:34,513 but I get a certain feeling from the text. 553 00:31:34,547 --> 00:31:38,172 I respond to the words, and if I respond to a story, 554 00:31:38,206 --> 00:31:39,449 I can illustrate it. 555 00:31:39,483 --> 00:31:42,107 My first concern is to serve the story. 556 00:31:42,141 --> 00:31:44,316 That is an illustrator's job. 557 00:31:44,350 --> 00:31:47,422 I don't research unless I have to because I prefer 558 00:31:47,457 --> 00:31:49,493 to draw from my imagination. 559 00:31:49,528 --> 00:31:52,531 Whatever I draw, whether it's a buffalo or a chair, 560 00:31:52,565 --> 00:31:55,810 I try to make it my own to satisfy myself. 561 00:31:57,398 --> 00:32:01,712 I prefer to work alone, without feedback from the author. 562 00:32:01,747 --> 00:32:03,714 I believe that once a manuscript is written 563 00:32:03,749 --> 00:32:06,234 and accepted, the writer's work is over. 564 00:32:06,269 --> 00:32:08,650 Unless you collaborate on a book from its inception, 565 00:32:08,685 --> 00:32:10,859 talking with authors can create problems 566 00:32:10,894 --> 00:32:13,932 over artistic interpretation. 567 00:32:13,966 --> 00:32:15,979 When I illustrate a story, I want to work with my ideas 568 00:32:16,003 --> 00:32:20,041 and my perception of the words, not with the author. 569 00:32:20,076 --> 00:32:22,526 While I had no notion of what an artist was, 570 00:32:22,561 --> 00:32:24,908 I did have an awareness of illustration 571 00:32:24,943 --> 00:32:27,152 from an early age. 572 00:32:27,186 --> 00:32:29,775 I used to lie on my stomach on the floor of the solarium 573 00:32:29,809 --> 00:32:34,159 and draw soldiers, airplanes, trains, and semaphores 574 00:32:34,193 --> 00:32:37,886 as well as the usual cowboys and Indians. 575 00:32:37,921 --> 00:32:39,657 As years go by, you retain what is interesting 576 00:32:39,681 --> 00:32:42,961 from childhood and toss out the rest. 577 00:32:42,995 --> 00:32:45,998 I tried to get through high school by drawing, too. 578 00:32:46,033 --> 00:32:48,138 I'd turn in book reports with illustrations, 579 00:32:48,173 --> 00:32:50,347 thinking the teachers would be impressed, 580 00:32:50,382 --> 00:32:51,900 but of course they weren't. 581 00:33:08,089 --> 00:33:09,411 - I know they're on the banned book list, 582 00:33:09,435 --> 00:33:12,473 so we weren't really even allowed to necessarily have them 583 00:33:12,507 --> 00:33:17,409 when we were in school, and then we just kind of would sneak 584 00:33:17,443 --> 00:33:18,893 'em into school. 585 00:33:20,343 --> 00:33:24,209 We'd limit TV, I'd read to my son every night. 586 00:33:24,243 --> 00:33:26,211 It's incredibly important, just so they build 587 00:33:26,245 --> 00:33:31,009 that imagination and learn how to make landscapes 588 00:33:31,043 --> 00:33:33,666 in their head and it makes them more creative 589 00:33:33,701 --> 00:33:35,358 in my opinion. 590 00:33:35,392 --> 00:33:38,257 I don't really see a kid going out and scooping 591 00:33:38,292 --> 00:33:39,948 somebody's brains out, you know? 592 00:33:39,983 --> 00:33:45,057 It's just folklore, it's fun, and if a kid can build 593 00:33:45,092 --> 00:33:49,406 his imagination by reading versus playing 594 00:33:49,441 --> 00:33:52,271 a video game or watching TV, then I'm all for it. 595 00:34:07,735 --> 00:34:10,255 I actually came to Sam with the idea for this entire sleeve 596 00:34:10,289 --> 00:34:14,155 at once and I put down, I paid for it in full 597 00:34:14,190 --> 00:34:17,262 and I p.m. said this is the idea I have. 598 00:34:17,296 --> 00:34:19,402 There were certain illustrations that I definitely, 599 00:34:19,436 --> 00:34:20,965 definitely wanted and then then other ones 600 00:34:20,989 --> 00:34:22,381 were kind of just like hey, let's see what fits 601 00:34:22,405 --> 00:34:23,406 and looks cool. 602 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,098 I think my favorite Scary Stories tattoo 603 00:34:26,133 --> 00:34:31,103 is probably the church, just because it is like, 604 00:34:31,862 --> 00:34:36,281 so detailed, just down to each shutter 605 00:34:36,315 --> 00:34:37,868 and down to the cross on top. 606 00:34:37,903 --> 00:34:39,594 It's probably my favorite. 607 00:34:39,629 --> 00:34:41,803 That's the one that I get the most compliments on 608 00:34:41,838 --> 00:34:44,254 of all pieces that are excellent on here, 609 00:34:44,289 --> 00:34:47,878 that is the one that stands out the most to people. 610 00:34:47,913 --> 00:34:49,373 It kinda hits a soft spot in most people 611 00:34:49,397 --> 00:34:51,710 because they're really excited about the books 612 00:34:51,744 --> 00:34:53,194 just like I was. 613 00:34:53,229 --> 00:34:58,234 - This artist in particular, he wears a very unique hat 614 00:34:58,889 --> 00:35:03,894 so to speak and asa I've been an artist my entire life, 615 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:09,245 so for me to try to put myself aside and literally 616 00:35:12,282 --> 00:35:17,115 mimic this artist's work, it's difficult. 617 00:35:17,149 --> 00:35:20,773 It mirrors a lot of my style. 618 00:35:20,808 --> 00:35:22,741 I like the macabre, I like the dark. 619 00:35:22,775 --> 00:35:24,432 I think it's interesting. 620 00:35:25,916 --> 00:35:29,368 Beyond that, it's just fun. 621 00:35:33,303 --> 00:35:37,618 - He was very, very dark, but that darkness, 622 00:35:37,652 --> 00:35:39,827 you sit there and you look at the images 623 00:35:39,861 --> 00:35:42,209 and you can keep finding things, and finding things, 624 00:35:42,243 --> 00:35:45,557 and finding things that's in one image. 625 00:35:45,591 --> 00:35:48,698 The more you look at it, the more things that you find. 626 00:35:51,010 --> 00:35:52,598 I have a two-year-old right now 627 00:35:52,633 --> 00:35:56,740 and I think I would definitely let him read these books 628 00:35:56,775 --> 00:35:57,845 when he's ready. 629 00:35:57,879 --> 00:36:00,192 They almost teach you a little bit about how 630 00:36:00,227 --> 00:36:05,266 to be more expressive and just put more details 631 00:36:05,301 --> 00:36:07,268 into everyday life and I think 632 00:36:07,303 --> 00:36:10,582 it would be a really, really good thing for him. 633 00:36:10,616 --> 00:36:13,309 So, if he has nightmares, I'm there to comfort him. 634 00:36:13,343 --> 00:36:16,864 If he has questions about things, I'm there to answer 635 00:36:16,898 --> 00:36:17,899 them for him. 636 00:36:17,934 --> 00:36:19,498 I'm not gonna shelter him from scary things 637 00:36:19,522 --> 00:36:22,076 just because I don't feel like he's ready. 638 00:36:22,110 --> 00:36:24,078 So when he's ready, he's ready 639 00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:42,648 - The superintendent walked back in 640 00:36:42,683 --> 00:36:45,306 and this time he said, "Miriam, let's go back 641 00:36:45,341 --> 00:36:48,654 "to your office in the back of the library," 642 00:36:48,689 --> 00:36:50,346 and I thought this is not going well. 643 00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:55,074 So we went back and he sat down at the desk, 644 00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:57,042 leaving me to stand. 645 00:36:57,076 --> 00:36:59,803 And he said, "Miriam, I'm going to ask you 646 00:36:59,838 --> 00:37:02,185 "to remove this book from the library." 647 00:37:04,083 --> 00:37:07,570 And I said, "I don't think I can do that. 648 00:37:08,847 --> 00:37:10,020 "Did you read it?" 649 00:37:10,952 --> 00:37:13,541 "No, I didn't get a chance." 650 00:37:13,576 --> 00:37:17,235 He said, "you have thousands of books in this library. 651 00:37:17,269 --> 00:37:22,240 "Why would you stake your career on one scary book?" 652 00:37:27,037 --> 00:37:30,351 And I said, "For every story, it has the region 653 00:37:30,386 --> 00:37:33,320 "of the country that it came from, it has the tradition 654 00:37:33,354 --> 00:37:38,359 "of it, I don't have anything else in the library like this. 655 00:37:38,566 --> 00:37:41,949 "I think that I can defend this book." 656 00:37:44,814 --> 00:37:46,885 "Well," he said, "I'm gonna have to get back to you. 657 00:37:46,919 --> 00:37:48,749 "I'm gonna have to talk to the school board. 658 00:37:48,783 --> 00:37:50,268 "The school board meets in two weeks, 659 00:37:50,302 --> 00:37:53,029 "probably this'll have to be part of the meeting." 660 00:38:17,260 --> 00:38:20,159 - Hey, do you guys want to hear a scary story? 661 00:38:20,194 --> 00:38:22,127 - Yeah! - Yeah, so. 662 00:38:25,337 --> 00:38:29,790 - Okay, so one night as this young girl was sleeping 663 00:38:29,824 --> 00:38:34,933 in her bed, a spider crawled across her face and it stopped 664 00:38:34,967 --> 00:38:37,763 in her left cheek just for a few minutes 665 00:38:37,798 --> 00:38:40,421 and then it went off on its way. 666 00:38:40,456 --> 00:38:42,458 Now the next morning, the girl woke up 667 00:38:42,492 --> 00:38:45,012 and she looked in the mirror and she noticed 668 00:38:45,046 --> 00:38:49,844 a little tiny red spot on her cheek, so she went to her mom. 669 00:38:49,879 --> 00:38:51,984 She was like, "Look at this, what is this?" 670 00:38:52,019 --> 00:38:54,677 And her mom said, "Oh, it looks like a spider bite. 671 00:38:54,711 --> 00:38:57,231 "It'll be fine, just don't scratch it." 672 00:38:57,265 --> 00:39:02,236 But soon, the red spot turned into a big gross boil. 673 00:39:03,444 --> 00:39:04,894 - Uh! - And the little girl 674 00:39:04,928 --> 00:39:07,483 went to her mom and she was like, "Mom, look at it now!" 675 00:39:07,517 --> 00:39:11,590 And her mom went, "Oh yeah, that'll sometimes happen. 676 00:39:11,625 --> 00:39:14,628 "It's coming to a head, you know, like a pimple?" 677 00:39:14,662 --> 00:39:19,115 But soon, the boil got even bigger and she went to her mom 678 00:39:19,149 --> 00:39:22,912 and she said, "Look at it now, it hurts and it's making me 679 00:39:22,946 --> 00:39:24,051 "look so ugly!" 680 00:39:24,085 --> 00:39:27,261 And her mom was like, "Okay, we'll have the doctor 681 00:39:27,295 --> 00:39:28,952 "look at it, maybe it's infected." 682 00:39:28,987 --> 00:39:32,024 But then the doctor couldn't see her till the next day, 683 00:39:32,059 --> 00:39:34,820 so to calm down, the girl decided that night 684 00:39:34,855 --> 00:39:38,514 that she would take a nice, soothing bath. 685 00:39:38,548 --> 00:39:41,517 So that night as she lay floating there 686 00:39:41,551 --> 00:39:45,244 in the warm water, the boil suddenly burst 687 00:39:45,279 --> 00:39:50,284 and out swarmed a whole bunch of little tiny spiders 688 00:39:51,458 --> 00:39:54,426 from the eggs that had been laid in her cheek 689 00:39:54,461 --> 00:39:55,669 the night before." 690 00:40:02,538 --> 00:40:05,472 - The Red Spot is a story about a young girl named Ruth 691 00:40:06,369 --> 00:40:10,649 who discovers, she thinks is a pimple on her face. 692 00:40:10,684 --> 00:40:12,410 A lot of that story has to do with the fact 693 00:40:12,444 --> 00:40:15,654 that we're often afraid of what our body is doing, 694 00:40:15,689 --> 00:40:17,794 the changes our body is undergoing 695 00:40:17,829 --> 00:40:19,807 and that's something that I think kids can appreciate 696 00:40:19,831 --> 00:40:22,972 and even teenagers 'cause when you're in elementary 697 00:40:23,006 --> 00:40:25,250 school, in middle school and high school, 698 00:40:25,284 --> 00:40:27,770 your body is constantly changing and evolving 699 00:40:27,804 --> 00:40:31,877 and your arms are too big, your legs are too long, 700 00:40:31,912 --> 00:40:33,085 your head's too big. 701 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,363 You're always growing and changing and it's something 702 00:40:35,398 --> 00:40:37,642 that you can't control, you have no control over that 703 00:40:37,676 --> 00:40:39,747 and a lot of times, that can be scary. 704 00:40:39,782 --> 00:40:42,543 - Breaching the integrity of your own skin 705 00:40:42,578 --> 00:40:47,583 and then having babies come out of it, 706 00:40:48,929 --> 00:40:50,596 the mom doesn't recognize it for what it is, 707 00:40:50,620 --> 00:40:54,072 it grows like a pregnant belly and then you have 708 00:40:54,106 --> 00:40:55,453 a lot of babies. 709 00:40:57,558 --> 00:41:00,872 It's an obviously flawed understanding 710 00:41:00,906 --> 00:41:04,082 of how babies come out of moms. 711 00:41:04,116 --> 00:41:08,707 That is a horror, that's a place of horror 712 00:41:08,742 --> 00:41:11,848 when a body morphs, it's a mythic understanding 713 00:41:11,883 --> 00:41:14,437 of how babies come out. 714 00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:16,991 It actually is mythic, it goes back to Zeus 715 00:41:17,026 --> 00:41:20,236 who has a splitting headache, cracks himself on the head 716 00:41:20,270 --> 00:41:21,972 and Athena springs full blown from his head. 717 00:41:21,996 --> 00:41:24,343 These stories circulate because they have 718 00:41:24,378 --> 00:41:25,966 these existential ties. 719 00:41:27,036 --> 00:41:29,487 - Donald and Sarah went to the movies 720 00:41:29,521 --> 00:41:31,558 and then after the movies, they went for a ride 721 00:41:31,592 --> 00:41:35,631 in Donald's car, so they parked up on this cliff 722 00:41:35,665 --> 00:41:37,495 where they could see all up and down 723 00:41:37,529 --> 00:41:38,737 the lights of the valley. 724 00:41:38,772 --> 00:41:40,739 It was beautiful and just as they were grooving 725 00:41:40,774 --> 00:41:43,811 to the tunes, a news bulletin broke in. 726 00:41:43,846 --> 00:41:47,366 A murderer had escaped from the state prison 727 00:41:47,401 --> 00:41:52,164 and he was heading south on foot armed with a knife. 728 00:41:52,199 --> 00:41:55,547 Now the murderer was missing his left hand 729 00:41:55,582 --> 00:41:58,516 and in its place was a hook. 730 00:41:58,550 --> 00:42:01,380 - The Hook is definitely a parable for what can happen 731 00:42:01,415 --> 00:42:02,727 when a boy and a girl 732 00:42:02,761 --> 00:42:04,556 are left together unchaperoned, 733 00:42:04,591 --> 00:42:06,765 whether it is something adult that happens 734 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,596 like premarital sex or whether it's just simply 735 00:42:09,630 --> 00:42:11,080 the idea of it. 736 00:42:11,114 --> 00:42:13,127 No, it's not proper, you shouldn't be doing that yet. 737 00:42:13,151 --> 00:42:15,878 Similar to the other stories about the wreck, 738 00:42:15,912 --> 00:42:17,303 there definitely seems to be a warning 739 00:42:17,327 --> 00:42:19,985 against teenagers in cars together. 740 00:42:20,020 --> 00:42:22,367 - The moral that that story tells 741 00:42:22,401 --> 00:42:24,852 is don't go to lover's lane, 742 00:42:24,887 --> 00:42:29,892 don't experiment with sexuality while you're young 743 00:42:30,168 --> 00:42:31,790 and while you have to be doing it 744 00:42:31,825 --> 00:42:34,862 in a secluded, isolated area. 745 00:42:34,897 --> 00:42:36,623 - It was nine o'clock in the evening 746 00:42:36,657 --> 00:42:38,797 and everybody was sitting on the couch watching TV 747 00:42:38,832 --> 00:42:43,837 it was Richard, Brian, and Jenny, and Doreen, 748 00:42:44,665 --> 00:42:46,564 the babysitter, they were all hanging out 749 00:42:46,598 --> 00:42:48,635 and then the telephone rang. 750 00:42:48,669 --> 00:42:51,085 - And he says, "I'm very close to you," 751 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,329 and she hangs up and about two seconds later, 752 00:42:53,363 --> 00:42:54,848 the operator calls back and says, 753 00:42:54,882 --> 00:42:55,676 "Get out of the house. 754 00:42:55,711 --> 00:42:57,091 "He's in there with you." 755 00:42:57,126 --> 00:42:59,231 And I remember that was the gotcha moment 756 00:42:59,266 --> 00:43:01,855 at the end of the story and even just thinking about it 757 00:43:01,889 --> 00:43:03,650 brings up goosebumps 'cause I think 758 00:43:03,684 --> 00:43:06,066 that's everybody's nightmare, is the idea of having 759 00:43:06,100 --> 00:43:08,931 a crazy person in the house with you 760 00:43:08,965 --> 00:43:09,932 while you're looking after little kids 761 00:43:09,966 --> 00:43:11,312 and you're by yourself. 762 00:43:11,347 --> 00:43:15,385 - When you're a child, domestic spaces are stable, 763 00:43:15,420 --> 00:43:17,456 and they're familiar, and they're comfortable 764 00:43:17,491 --> 00:43:19,158 because you're in the house with your parents, 765 00:43:19,182 --> 00:43:22,427 all your things are there, it's where you have dinner, 766 00:43:22,461 --> 00:43:25,326 it's where you play, and so it becomes a safe environment 767 00:43:25,361 --> 00:43:29,986 and in a lot of gothic stories, that environment is often 768 00:43:30,021 --> 00:43:33,300 invaded by terror and anxiety. 769 00:43:33,334 --> 00:43:35,992 We can see it in the story The Voice, 770 00:43:36,027 --> 00:43:39,686 we can see it in the story Oh, Susanna 771 00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:42,654 where we think everything is safe. 772 00:43:42,689 --> 00:43:44,321 Suddenly, our world is flipped upside down 773 00:43:44,345 --> 00:43:48,142 and a murderer could come in and chop your head off 774 00:43:48,177 --> 00:43:50,110 or in the story The Babysitter, 775 00:43:50,144 --> 00:43:53,423 there's a guy upstairs on the phone calling down. 776 00:43:53,458 --> 00:43:55,633 And so there's a sense here that you're never 777 00:43:55,667 --> 00:43:58,359 really safe, you may think you are, but you're not. 778 00:43:58,394 --> 00:44:01,190 - When it got hot in the valley, Thomas and Alfred 779 00:44:01,224 --> 00:44:02,847 would bring their cows up the mountain 780 00:44:02,881 --> 00:44:04,780 to this beautiful pasture to graze. 781 00:44:04,814 --> 00:44:07,645 And so one day, Thomas had this idea. 782 00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:12,132 He was like, "Let's make a doll the size of a man. 783 00:44:12,166 --> 00:44:15,273 "It'd be fun to make and it would scare away the crows. 784 00:44:15,307 --> 00:44:16,239 "What do you think?" 785 00:44:16,274 --> 00:44:18,448 And Alfred was like, "That's a good idea. 786 00:44:18,483 --> 00:44:20,278 "You know what, we should name it Harold." 787 00:44:20,312 --> 00:44:22,418 And Harold was the name of the farmer 788 00:44:22,452 --> 00:44:24,385 that the guys just hated. 789 00:44:24,420 --> 00:44:26,053 - Then they decided there must be some field mice 790 00:44:26,077 --> 00:44:28,044 inside of Harold or something, so they put him 791 00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:29,919 back out to do his work, brought him in the next day 792 00:44:29,943 --> 00:44:31,358 and they heard Harold grunt again. 793 00:44:31,392 --> 00:44:33,291 And now and then over the next few months, 794 00:44:33,325 --> 00:44:34,855 Harold would grunt a little bit more and one day 795 00:44:34,879 --> 00:44:36,501 he even began to talk. 796 00:44:36,535 --> 00:44:38,676 Then one day, one of the two farmers woke up 797 00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:40,954 and his partner was missing, and he looked around 798 00:44:40,988 --> 00:44:43,104 and tried to find him, but he couldn't find the partner 799 00:44:43,128 --> 00:44:44,554 and he couldn't find Harold anywhere. 800 00:44:44,578 --> 00:44:45,900 But then he looked up onto his roof 801 00:44:45,924 --> 00:44:49,790 and there was Herald, spreading out a bloody skin. 802 00:44:51,136 --> 00:44:52,793 - One of my favorites is Harold. 803 00:44:52,828 --> 00:44:53,794 - Harold. - Harold. 804 00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:55,900 - Ooh, I know this one. - Of course. 805 00:44:55,934 --> 00:44:57,039 - Yeah! - Harold. 806 00:44:57,073 --> 00:44:58,799 - Yeah. - What do you 807 00:44:58,834 --> 00:45:00,939 remember from it? - The nightmares. 808 00:45:00,974 --> 00:45:02,745 - One of the reasons I think I like it so much 809 00:45:02,769 --> 00:45:04,080 is because it's very timely 810 00:45:04,115 --> 00:45:05,668 'cause it's a story about bullying. 811 00:45:05,703 --> 00:45:08,291 - It gave me nightmares because of course, 812 00:45:08,326 --> 00:45:10,466 I was a little girl, I had a lot of dolls 813 00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:14,021 and all I did after that was think about different ways 814 00:45:14,056 --> 00:45:15,540 that they might come to life. 815 00:45:15,574 --> 00:45:17,576 - Sometimes we are the ones who are responsible 816 00:45:17,611 --> 00:45:20,338 for making the monster who they are. 817 00:45:23,065 --> 00:45:26,344 - This biography was published some years ago 818 00:45:26,378 --> 00:45:29,347 and I gave the publishers this photo, 819 00:45:29,381 --> 00:45:32,971 but you can see that it's the same one, yeah. 820 00:45:37,838 --> 00:45:40,738 He thoroughly researched all of his topics 821 00:45:40,772 --> 00:45:43,016 and investigated many different sources. 822 00:45:43,050 --> 00:45:44,845 Schwartz did a lot of his work 823 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,503 at Princeton University's Firestone Library. 824 00:45:47,537 --> 00:45:50,713 While researching, Schwartz looked for patterns. 825 00:45:50,748 --> 00:45:52,957 What did many of the folk tales have in common, 826 00:45:52,991 --> 00:45:55,822 what similar elements were present in stories 827 00:45:55,856 --> 00:45:57,064 from around the country? 828 00:45:59,308 --> 00:46:02,414 - From a very young age, as soon as I could read, 829 00:46:02,449 --> 00:46:04,692 I was very tuned to my grandfather's books 830 00:46:04,727 --> 00:46:07,247 and the Scary Stories books. 831 00:46:07,281 --> 00:46:09,870 - A lot of my relationships with certain people 832 00:46:09,905 --> 00:46:12,735 that I know is founded on the fact that they love 833 00:46:12,770 --> 00:46:14,540 these books, so whenever they see me they're like, 834 00:46:14,564 --> 00:46:16,428 "Scary Stories guy!" 835 00:46:16,463 --> 00:46:18,741 I'm like, yeah. 836 00:46:18,776 --> 00:46:21,123 Growing up, I never really saw in light of them 837 00:46:21,157 --> 00:46:24,471 being widely banned, I just saw them as stories 838 00:46:24,505 --> 00:46:26,300 that my grandfather collected. 839 00:46:26,335 --> 00:46:30,995 I think now I see them more as, the banned books, 840 00:46:31,029 --> 00:46:33,376 as part of their legacy and I think now 841 00:46:33,411 --> 00:46:35,827 that is the point of pride for me, 842 00:46:35,862 --> 00:46:37,518 the fact that they were widely banned. 843 00:46:37,553 --> 00:46:40,004 I think that that validates them. 844 00:46:43,697 --> 00:46:45,388 This is Firestone Library on the campus 845 00:46:45,423 --> 00:46:46,849 of Princeton University, where my grandpa 846 00:46:46,873 --> 00:46:49,807 used to research his Scary Stories books. 847 00:46:56,883 --> 00:46:59,368 - Alvin Schwartz drew on all the folk legends 848 00:46:59,402 --> 00:47:03,579 and old folklore, folklore from everywhere 849 00:47:03,613 --> 00:47:06,651 and he found variations of the stories, 850 00:47:06,685 --> 00:47:08,687 which I think kids find really interesting 851 00:47:08,722 --> 00:47:10,448 and I love that in his books. 852 00:47:10,482 --> 00:47:13,831 My sources, I think, are completely different. 853 00:47:13,865 --> 00:47:17,144 We were opposites in many ways because his books 854 00:47:17,179 --> 00:47:19,698 were so completely researched. 855 00:47:19,733 --> 00:47:24,048 He would spend a year researching these old ghost stories 856 00:47:24,082 --> 00:47:26,947 and old legends from all over. 857 00:47:26,982 --> 00:47:29,260 I've never done research in my life! 858 00:47:29,294 --> 00:47:32,125 - Another wonderful thing about Schwartz's work 859 00:47:32,159 --> 00:47:36,888 is those links in the back that he gives to collectors' 860 00:47:36,923 --> 00:47:40,064 work and what's marvelous from a folklore 861 00:47:40,098 --> 00:47:42,894 and literature point of view as a scholar 862 00:47:42,929 --> 00:47:46,794 is how I see children interact with that. 863 00:47:46,829 --> 00:47:49,832 You get a child that's really precocious 864 00:47:49,867 --> 00:47:53,594 and interested in the world, if you flip to the back 865 00:47:53,629 --> 00:47:55,493 and you see that source material, 866 00:47:55,527 --> 00:48:00,532 you go, oh jeez, I had no idea that they told folktales 867 00:48:01,223 --> 00:48:04,467 in Guatemala or India or wherever the place may be 868 00:48:04,502 --> 00:48:07,815 and now suddenly you have a source 869 00:48:07,850 --> 00:48:10,266 and if the child is lucky enough to have the internet 870 00:48:10,301 --> 00:48:13,407 at home or to have a university library nearby, 871 00:48:13,442 --> 00:48:17,032 they can go and they can bring in those collections 872 00:48:17,066 --> 00:48:21,726 and they can read and have their eyes opened 873 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,970 in a way that they never had before. 874 00:48:27,007 --> 00:48:30,010 - They played all sorts of foolish pranks with it, 875 00:48:30,045 --> 00:48:33,324 smeared it with cream and pudding and finally went so far 876 00:48:33,358 --> 00:48:35,395 as to baptize it. 877 00:48:35,429 --> 00:48:38,018 Now it came to life and began to talk. 878 00:48:42,126 --> 00:48:45,232 - One of the more interesting dimensions of that story 879 00:48:45,267 --> 00:48:48,063 is that in the original source material, 880 00:48:48,097 --> 00:48:50,962 they baptize Harold when they create him. 881 00:48:50,997 --> 00:48:53,033 What's especially interesting with Harold 882 00:48:53,068 --> 00:48:56,174 is the connection between the baptism and Napoleon. 883 00:48:57,244 --> 00:48:58,428 It's sort of weaponizing baptism 884 00:48:58,452 --> 00:49:01,939 and it becomes not a type of liberation, 885 00:49:01,973 --> 00:49:05,252 but it becomes another form of control, 886 00:49:05,287 --> 00:49:07,910 then that's potentially Promethean. 887 00:49:07,945 --> 00:49:11,362 I mean, that's like stealing fire from the gods 888 00:49:11,396 --> 00:49:13,502 and it's dangerous. 889 00:49:20,647 --> 00:49:23,581 - Some stories verge on straight jokes. 890 00:49:23,615 --> 00:49:26,618 There are dozens of stories of this type. 891 00:49:26,653 --> 00:49:29,104 A man calls up a woman on the fall and tells her 892 00:49:29,138 --> 00:49:31,830 he's coming up to her apartment. 893 00:49:31,865 --> 00:49:36,835 She asked who he is and he says, "The Widow Viper." 894 00:49:37,181 --> 00:49:39,562 - One of the stories in the Scary Stories books 895 00:49:39,597 --> 00:49:42,703 that I think mixes humor and horror so well 896 00:49:42,738 --> 00:49:46,949 is The Viper where there's a woman who is in her apartment 897 00:49:46,984 --> 00:49:49,434 and this man keeps calling her and he says, 898 00:49:49,469 --> 00:49:51,781 "I am the Viper and I'm coming upstairs." 899 00:49:51,816 --> 00:49:53,680 And she's like, "Oh no, the Viper!" 900 00:49:53,714 --> 00:49:55,923 That sounds like some kind of serial killer 901 00:49:55,958 --> 00:49:58,478 or maybe a monster snake. 902 00:49:58,512 --> 00:50:01,412 And so she calls the police, but the guy comes upstairs first 903 00:50:01,446 --> 00:50:04,139 and then she opens the door and he's standing there 904 00:50:04,173 --> 00:50:05,968 and he's holding a bucket and a rag 905 00:50:06,003 --> 00:50:08,119 and he says, "I am the viper, I am here vipe your vindows." 906 00:50:08,143 --> 00:50:09,868 And so in my head anyway, 907 00:50:09,903 --> 00:50:11,870 he always had a Transylvanian accent. 908 00:50:16,358 --> 00:50:19,326 - The Vindow Viper is probably my favorite story 909 00:50:19,361 --> 00:50:21,259 from the Scary Stories books. 910 00:50:21,294 --> 00:50:24,400 It really reads like a joke with a setup and punchline 911 00:50:24,435 --> 00:50:27,748 and what the humor does is it sort of brings the narrator 912 00:50:27,783 --> 00:50:31,545 to the fore at the end of this story, 913 00:50:31,580 --> 00:50:34,065 really a cathartic feeling when you hear that 914 00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:36,550 and you're just like, sigh of relief 915 00:50:36,585 --> 00:50:38,311 and the humor really brings that out. 916 00:50:38,345 --> 00:50:40,392 - The stories can be linked to the local environment, 917 00:50:40,416 --> 00:50:42,867 it can be linked to the cultural environment, 918 00:50:43,902 --> 00:50:46,767 but what's really interesting is they take you 919 00:50:46,802 --> 00:50:49,563 right to the edge of your seat and suddenly 920 00:50:49,598 --> 00:50:52,359 ah yeah, it's the Viper. 921 00:50:52,394 --> 00:50:56,225 I vant to vash your vindows, and it's not a big deal. 922 00:50:56,260 --> 00:50:58,986 They're gonna come wash your windows and what's happened 923 00:50:59,021 --> 00:51:02,818 is you've been taken right along the line of belief 924 00:51:02,852 --> 00:51:06,408 right to the point where you expect 925 00:51:06,442 --> 00:51:09,066 this to be like every other legend. 926 00:51:09,100 --> 00:51:11,033 I'm gonna be challenged. 927 00:51:11,068 --> 00:51:12,931 But the way you're actually challenged 928 00:51:12,966 --> 00:51:15,865 your expectation is challenged, 929 00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:18,385 and that's where that subtext of humor comes in. 930 00:51:18,420 --> 00:51:20,387 - There is a saying, he who takes a trip 931 00:51:20,422 --> 00:51:22,527 has something to tell. 932 00:51:22,562 --> 00:51:24,184 The teller of the legend takes a trip 933 00:51:24,219 --> 00:51:25,565 to a very different world, 934 00:51:25,599 --> 00:51:28,085 one which lies beyond the mundane reality 935 00:51:28,119 --> 00:51:29,741 of everyday life. 936 00:51:29,776 --> 00:51:31,226 - So that kind of Eastern European, 937 00:51:31,260 --> 00:51:35,989 German-esque changing of just a consonant sound 938 00:51:36,023 --> 00:51:40,718 gives a story that could be very well placed 939 00:51:40,752 --> 00:51:42,789 in many locations across the United States 940 00:51:42,823 --> 00:51:44,273 'cause the German influx 941 00:51:44,308 --> 00:51:46,517 settled in many, many different places 942 00:51:47,587 --> 00:51:50,659 and it gives someone the chance 943 00:51:50,693 --> 00:51:55,491 to think about outsiders versus insiders, 944 00:51:55,526 --> 00:51:58,218 one of the really neat things about folklore 945 00:51:58,253 --> 00:52:01,256 and then one of the things that's a little bit touchy 946 00:52:01,290 --> 00:52:03,810 we well is when you have a whole lot of people 947 00:52:03,844 --> 00:52:06,053 who are very similar, then the world 948 00:52:06,088 --> 00:52:10,472 is supposed to be one way, we have one point of view. 949 00:52:10,506 --> 00:52:13,406 Scary Stories are a place where we can challenge ourselves 950 00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,133 with points of view from away. 951 00:52:17,444 --> 00:52:19,101 They may be other regions, 952 00:52:19,136 --> 00:52:22,208 other countries, somebody who speaks a foreign language 953 00:52:22,242 --> 00:52:23,564 and eats really weird stuff and you're not really sure 954 00:52:23,588 --> 00:52:25,221 what it is 'cause you don't recognize the name 955 00:52:25,245 --> 00:52:26,971 in the other language. 956 00:52:27,005 --> 00:52:29,249 - My name is Gary Fine, I am a professor 957 00:52:29,284 --> 00:52:32,701 os Sociology at Northwestern University. 958 00:52:32,735 --> 00:52:36,429 I believe it was about 30 years ago 959 00:52:36,463 --> 00:52:40,329 that I received a phone call from Alvin Schwartz. 960 00:52:43,367 --> 00:52:47,198 It was kind of exciting, I have to say. 961 00:52:47,233 --> 00:52:50,719 I was a young scholar, I have to say, and to see my name 962 00:52:50,753 --> 00:52:53,204 in print in one of the series of books 963 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,759 that was aimed at children, Sam's New Pet 964 00:52:56,794 --> 00:53:01,799 is a classic rewriting of the Mexican Pet legend, 965 00:53:03,041 --> 00:53:05,906 and this is a legend that perhaps today 966 00:53:05,941 --> 00:53:09,979 is even more relevant than it has ever been. 967 00:53:10,014 --> 00:53:15,019 It was really spread widely at first in the 1980s, 968 00:53:15,744 --> 00:53:18,712 but why would it have been spread at that point? 969 00:53:18,747 --> 00:53:22,544 It is a story about naive Americans 970 00:53:22,578 --> 00:53:27,583 who go to a third world land and admire the people there, 971 00:53:28,722 --> 00:53:33,727 but also they decide against the laws. 972 00:53:33,762 --> 00:53:38,767 Illegally, they will bring one of these foreign animals, 973 00:53:39,250 --> 00:53:43,081 these foreign creatures onto American shores. 974 00:53:43,116 --> 00:53:47,569 And of course, the story is about how that seeming 975 00:53:47,603 --> 00:53:51,538 act of kindness is dangerous, 976 00:53:51,573 --> 00:53:55,335 and this is a story that was relevant in the 1980s 977 00:53:55,370 --> 00:53:58,476 when we had discussions about immigration 978 00:53:58,511 --> 00:54:02,066 and remains relevant today. 979 00:54:02,100 --> 00:54:03,447 - The really interesting stories 980 00:54:03,481 --> 00:54:06,104 that are the challenge, taboos, 981 00:54:06,139 --> 00:54:09,107 and expectations about culture are the ones that focus 982 00:54:09,142 --> 00:54:10,913 on the people from away 'cause you don't really know 983 00:54:10,937 --> 00:54:13,905 what they think, you don't really know what they believe, 984 00:54:13,940 --> 00:54:16,667 not really sure what they eat, not really sure 985 00:54:16,701 --> 00:54:19,911 how they think about morality. 986 00:54:19,946 --> 00:54:24,985 They might sell you a diseased rat as a hairless dog. 987 00:54:32,338 --> 00:54:35,651 - The Scary Stories tales include a number of stories 988 00:54:35,686 --> 00:54:38,447 taken from right here in the Ozarks of southern Missouri 989 00:54:38,482 --> 00:54:40,104 and northern Arkansas. 990 00:54:40,138 --> 00:54:43,314 The Ozarks experienced the Civil War in a manner 991 00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:46,766 very different from much of the rest of the country. 992 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,699 And one of the old tropes about the Civil War 993 00:54:48,733 --> 00:54:51,184 is that it was a war fought between neighbor and neighbor 994 00:54:51,218 --> 00:54:52,392 and brother and brother. 995 00:54:52,427 --> 00:54:55,706 In most parts of the country, that's not really true. 996 00:54:55,740 --> 00:54:57,915 Most of the combatants didn't actually know 997 00:54:57,949 --> 00:54:59,192 the person they were killing 998 00:54:59,226 --> 00:55:01,608 or who were trying to kill them. 999 00:55:01,643 --> 00:55:05,094 Here in the Ozarks, it very often was the case. 1000 00:55:05,129 --> 00:55:08,028 So by the end of the war, that left the population 1001 00:55:08,063 --> 00:55:11,722 of southern Missouri and northern Arkansas 1002 00:55:11,756 --> 00:55:15,312 deeply divided amongst themselves. 1003 00:55:15,346 --> 00:55:18,901 It left a legacy of bitterness and mistrust 1004 00:55:18,936 --> 00:55:22,560 and it comes through in the art, the songs, 1005 00:55:22,595 --> 00:55:25,080 the stories that people tell. 1006 00:55:25,114 --> 00:55:28,221 So for example, in the story Alligators, 1007 00:55:28,255 --> 00:55:32,190 you have a story about a young woman who marries a man, 1008 00:55:32,225 --> 00:55:35,918 actually has two children with him and it turns out 1009 00:55:35,953 --> 00:55:38,921 he is a shape shifter of some sort, 1010 00:55:38,956 --> 00:55:43,340 he goes down to the creek at night and he goes swimming 1011 00:55:43,374 --> 00:55:46,032 and when he gets into the water, he turns into an alligator. 1012 00:55:46,066 --> 00:55:49,104 And not only that, but his sons do. 1013 00:55:49,138 --> 00:55:52,556 Well, what is this story trying to communicate to us? 1014 00:55:52,590 --> 00:55:56,422 The sense of extreme anxiety that people had 1015 00:55:56,456 --> 00:55:58,769 over who they could trust that affected 1016 00:55:58,803 --> 00:56:03,601 even some of the most basic relationship decisions. 1017 00:56:03,636 --> 00:56:07,571 The story Wonderful Sausage is taken from an Ozark folk 1018 00:56:07,605 --> 00:56:12,058 story called The Bloody Miller, collected by Vance Randolph. 1019 00:56:12,092 --> 00:56:15,751 There's a proprietor of a gristmill much like this one 1020 00:56:15,786 --> 00:56:18,513 who gets into a fight with his wife. 1021 00:56:18,547 --> 00:56:21,792 He kills her in a fit of rage, he grinds her body up 1022 00:56:21,826 --> 00:56:24,726 and sells it as sausage. 1023 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,384 In the process, he discovers that human meat 1024 00:56:27,418 --> 00:56:29,040 makes the best sausage. 1025 00:56:29,075 --> 00:56:30,697 Of course, not everybody had the means 1026 00:56:30,732 --> 00:56:33,217 or the wherewithal at that time 1027 00:56:33,251 --> 00:56:35,564 to make their own sausage. 1028 00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:39,050 That meant that you are trusting somebody else 1029 00:56:39,085 --> 00:56:41,018 with what into your belly. 1030 00:56:41,052 --> 00:56:42,882 One of the interesting thematic connections 1031 00:56:42,916 --> 00:56:45,022 between a story like The Bloody Miller 1032 00:56:45,056 --> 00:56:48,784 and The Cat's Paw, Little Black Dog, 1033 00:56:48,819 --> 00:56:53,824 is the issue of mistrust and also social anxiety, 1034 00:56:54,238 --> 00:56:57,862 the idea that you don't always know what your neighbor, 1035 00:56:57,897 --> 00:57:00,589 your friend, or even your significant other, 1036 00:57:00,624 --> 00:57:03,281 your spouse, is capable of. 1037 00:57:15,259 --> 00:57:19,539 - I remember the last time I saw him, 1038 00:57:21,299 --> 00:57:24,371 the cancer had gone into his brain 1039 00:57:24,406 --> 00:57:26,166 and he had a few weeks to live. 1040 00:57:26,201 --> 00:57:27,685 He didn't really know that. 1041 00:57:28,548 --> 00:57:30,319 And then we drove to the airport and I got out 1042 00:57:30,343 --> 00:57:32,932 and I knew that I wouldn't see him again 1043 00:57:32,966 --> 00:57:37,971 and I had this strong impulse to tell him that I loved him 1044 00:57:41,112 --> 00:57:44,495 and I wasn't able to do it, and I just remember walking away 1045 00:57:44,530 --> 00:57:45,669 and that was it. 1046 00:57:49,155 --> 00:57:51,640 - Death in children's literature is a perennial theme. 1047 00:57:51,675 --> 00:57:54,885 One of the themes that is most affecting, 1048 00:57:54,919 --> 00:57:57,163 that is one of the themes that appeals most 1049 00:57:57,197 --> 00:57:59,890 to our imaginations through our emotions, 1050 00:57:59,924 --> 00:58:04,342 but it also is fascinating for children in terms 1051 00:58:04,377 --> 00:58:08,381 of helping them develop a sense of self. 1052 00:58:08,415 --> 00:58:11,936 Some kids are incessantly curious. 1053 00:58:11,971 --> 00:58:14,525 They've really got that hyperactive epistamaphilic impulse. 1054 00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:18,667 They want to know well, what does it look like 1055 00:58:18,702 --> 00:58:19,772 to be dead? 1056 00:58:19,806 --> 00:58:21,163 Not just what happens after we die. 1057 00:58:21,187 --> 00:58:23,085 They don't want some nebulous, 1058 00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,225 we're all, you know, we turn into spirits. 1059 00:58:25,260 --> 00:58:27,124 No, I want to know about the worms crawl in, 1060 00:58:27,158 --> 00:58:28,332 the worlds crawl out. 1061 00:58:28,366 --> 00:58:32,681 - I was in a discussion just a couple of days ago, 1062 00:58:32,716 --> 00:58:36,789 you know, the cremation versus burial debate 1063 00:58:36,823 --> 00:58:41,828 and what came to mind but that particular rhyme, 1064 00:58:42,242 --> 00:58:44,279 the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out. 1065 00:58:44,313 --> 00:58:46,177 Children need these outlets. 1066 00:58:46,212 --> 00:58:50,250 They need to have platforms. 1067 00:58:50,285 --> 00:58:55,255 Verse, chant silly songs that enable them somehow 1068 00:58:55,290 --> 00:58:57,637 to banish their fears. 1069 00:58:57,672 --> 00:59:00,813 The young are precocious, they know that people die, 1070 00:59:00,847 --> 00:59:03,540 but nobody will talk to them about it. 1071 00:59:03,574 --> 00:59:06,335 - The importance of giving a name and a face 1072 00:59:06,370 --> 00:59:10,098 to our fears is the first way to come from 1073 00:59:10,132 --> 00:59:14,447 because if you say to a child oh, that will never happen, 1074 00:59:14,481 --> 00:59:15,655 do you know what? 1075 00:59:15,690 --> 00:59:19,141 Sometimes it does, but what we can do is give children 1076 00:59:19,176 --> 00:59:23,145 the power to acknowledge what they're feeling. 1077 00:59:23,180 --> 00:59:26,459 It is wrong to say that there is nothing to fear. 1078 00:59:26,493 --> 00:59:28,599 There are all kinds of things to fear. 1079 00:59:28,634 --> 00:59:32,189 Anything that can happen that's going to help us 1080 00:59:32,223 --> 00:59:36,193 figure out how we can begin to control it 1081 00:59:36,227 --> 00:59:38,126 is really, really important. 1082 00:59:46,997 --> 00:59:49,171 - The next day was Halloween. 1083 00:59:49,206 --> 00:59:51,795 We have a parade at our schools. 1084 01:00:02,875 --> 01:00:04,635 I was just getting ready for the morning. 1085 01:00:04,670 --> 01:00:06,844 The principal comes tearing into the room. 1086 01:00:06,879 --> 01:00:10,503 She says, "Miriam, Miriam, you have got to see this!" 1087 01:00:10,537 --> 01:00:12,643 And I go running out of the library 1088 01:00:12,678 --> 01:00:16,820 and coming up the driveway is the complaining mother 1089 01:00:16,854 --> 01:00:19,236 with her two daughters. 1090 01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:22,239 The third grade is dressed like a witch 1091 01:00:22,273 --> 01:00:26,795 and the kindergartner is dressed like a skeleton 1092 01:00:26,830 --> 01:00:31,006 and they're carrying ghost balloons for their classroom. 1093 01:00:32,663 --> 01:00:35,908 Well, as part of the day's festivities, 1094 01:00:35,942 --> 01:00:39,912 we took pictures of children, including the third grader 1095 01:00:39,946 --> 01:00:43,156 and the kindergartner, which we then printed 1096 01:00:43,191 --> 01:00:46,090 and gave to the superintendent. 1097 01:00:46,125 --> 01:00:47,989 The superintendent had the mother come in 1098 01:00:48,023 --> 01:00:52,407 and suggest that probably she needed to withdraw 1099 01:00:52,441 --> 01:00:57,446 her complaint that it was totally ungrounded. 1100 01:01:06,007 --> 01:01:08,734 - Parents and teachers in a Seattle suburb will vote 1101 01:01:08,768 --> 01:01:11,150 next week on a plan to ban three books 1102 01:01:11,184 --> 01:01:13,255 from an elementary school library. 1103 01:01:13,290 --> 01:01:14,981 Those who want to get rid of the books 1104 01:01:15,016 --> 01:01:17,604 say they're just too gruesome for young readers. 1105 01:01:17,639 --> 01:01:19,745 More from Susanna Frame. 1106 01:01:19,779 --> 01:01:21,781 - I was upset by the graphic illustrations 1107 01:01:21,816 --> 01:01:24,784 and violent stories. - A debate broke out here 1108 01:01:24,819 --> 01:01:27,373 over death, the devil, and dismemberment, 1109 01:01:27,407 --> 01:01:30,203 all topics stemming from three thin books of folklore 1110 01:01:30,238 --> 01:01:33,413 called the Scary Stories by Alvin Schwartz. 1111 01:01:33,448 --> 01:01:35,081 - And sure, they're gonna be afraid of fires, 1112 01:01:35,105 --> 01:01:38,384 and drowning, and strangers, but why do they have to live 1113 01:01:38,418 --> 01:01:40,766 with this fear that somebody's gonna chop 'em up 1114 01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:42,664 and eat them? - Parents behind the book 1115 01:01:42,699 --> 01:01:45,080 say this is a clearcut case of censorship 1116 01:01:45,115 --> 01:01:47,842 and that the tales are actually good for their children. 1117 01:01:47,876 --> 01:01:51,190 - Back in 1993, I was a children's librarian 1118 01:01:51,224 --> 01:01:54,745 at the Public Library and some moms 1119 01:01:54,780 --> 01:01:56,205 who lived in Kingsgate that was right 1120 01:01:56,229 --> 01:01:59,129 close to my library got it in their heads 1121 01:01:59,163 --> 01:02:02,753 to challenge the Lake of Washington School District 1122 01:02:02,788 --> 01:02:06,239 for having he Alvin Schwartz books in the school libraries. 1123 01:02:06,274 --> 01:02:10,002 - Suddenly I was not just a concerned mother, I was a censor 1124 01:02:10,036 --> 01:02:13,557 because I wanted to ban these books. 1125 01:02:13,591 --> 01:02:15,052 - And so the Lake Washington School Board 1126 01:02:15,076 --> 01:02:16,180 had a hearing. 1127 01:02:16,215 --> 01:02:18,769 The school librarians asked me if I would come too 1128 01:02:18,804 --> 01:02:22,324 as the local public librarian and also because I had 1129 01:02:22,359 --> 01:02:26,156 a PhD in Folklore and I could speak about the oral tradition 1130 01:02:26,190 --> 01:02:27,709 and the history of these stories 1131 01:02:27,744 --> 01:02:29,066 and maybe get a little background there. 1132 01:02:29,090 --> 01:02:30,919 - Parents behind the books say 1133 01:02:30,954 --> 01:02:33,542 this is a clearcut case of censorship, and that the tales 1134 01:02:33,577 --> 01:02:35,959 are actually good for their children. 1135 01:02:35,993 --> 01:02:38,616 - There's no way they can think about what happens 1136 01:02:38,651 --> 01:02:40,411 once a person dies and they're in the grave. 1137 01:02:40,446 --> 01:02:41,516 Do they rot? 1138 01:02:41,550 --> 01:02:43,276 What happens when you die? 1139 01:02:43,311 --> 01:02:44,415 You rot. 1140 01:02:44,450 --> 01:02:45,727 Can you talk about it? 1141 01:02:45,762 --> 01:02:47,246 Uh-uh, but kids thing about it 1142 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,387 and these stories help them think about it openly. 1143 01:02:50,421 --> 01:02:53,217 Which of course is the crux of the whole thing. 1144 01:02:53,252 --> 01:02:56,531 Our kids don't get to hear that you rot when you die. 1145 01:02:56,565 --> 01:02:59,258 - It's about age appropriateness. 1146 01:02:59,292 --> 01:03:02,226 I'm not saying take them out of all libraries, 1147 01:03:02,261 --> 01:03:03,469 I'm just saying take them out 1148 01:03:03,503 --> 01:03:04,815 of elementary school libraries. 1149 01:03:04,850 --> 01:03:06,955 They do not belong there. 1150 01:03:06,990 --> 01:03:11,270 The committee said we're gonna keep the books. 1151 01:03:11,304 --> 01:03:13,513 I said okay, then I'm gonna now take it 1152 01:03:13,548 --> 01:03:16,723 to the school board because that was my other alternative 1153 01:03:16,758 --> 01:03:17,690 'cause that's what they said to me, 1154 01:03:17,724 --> 01:03:19,243 take it to the school board. 1155 01:03:19,278 --> 01:03:22,833 - There were many cases of school boards debating 1156 01:03:22,868 --> 01:03:26,561 whether to keep Goosebumps in the school library 1157 01:03:26,595 --> 01:03:31,014 or not and I'm happy to say that in most cases, 1158 01:03:31,048 --> 01:03:34,672 the books were kept on the shelves, most. 1159 01:03:34,707 --> 01:03:38,090 There was a wonderful, now it was in Minnesota, 1160 01:03:38,124 --> 01:03:40,851 I think, where a school board was going to take 1161 01:03:40,886 --> 01:03:44,544 all the Goosebumps books away from their schools 1162 01:03:44,579 --> 01:03:46,339 and it was on C-SPAN. 1163 01:03:46,374 --> 01:03:48,928 - William W. Garrison Franklin. 1164 01:03:48,963 --> 01:03:52,000 - And a father stood up and he had a big stack 1165 01:03:52,035 --> 01:03:53,484 of Goosebumps books. 1166 01:03:53,519 --> 01:03:55,555 - My name's Bill Garrison. 1167 01:03:55,590 --> 01:03:57,695 My daughter goes to Franklin. 1168 01:03:57,730 --> 01:04:01,216 I'm unable to read to her for the simple fact 1169 01:04:01,251 --> 01:04:03,978 that I'm a single parent and I have no time 1170 01:04:04,012 --> 01:04:07,774 to read for her, but these Goosebumps collection 1171 01:04:07,809 --> 01:04:10,916 that I have here, which I have not seen one tonight, 1172 01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:15,196 encouraged her to read and if they're taken off the shelves, 1173 01:04:15,230 --> 01:04:18,095 then I'm afraid she's gonna lose interest to read 1174 01:04:18,130 --> 01:04:22,444 and is gonna end up like me without a decent job 1175 01:04:22,479 --> 01:04:24,481 because I have no education. 1176 01:04:24,515 --> 01:04:27,311 - I want her to be able to read what she loves 1177 01:04:27,346 --> 01:04:30,314 and I'm home in tears watching this guy. 1178 01:04:30,349 --> 01:04:32,489 I'm like, it was amazing. 1179 01:04:32,523 --> 01:04:35,319 - If the kids choose to read 'em, more power to 'em, 1180 01:04:35,354 --> 01:04:37,701 if the parents don't choose to have 'em in the home, 1181 01:04:37,735 --> 01:04:39,876 more power to 'em. 1182 01:04:39,910 --> 01:04:41,670 I'm one for to keep 'em with the books. 1183 01:04:41,705 --> 01:04:42,889 - Thank you. - One thing you notice 1184 01:04:42,913 --> 01:04:43,925 about book hearings is that people 1185 01:04:43,949 --> 01:04:46,261 are very passionate at them. 1186 01:04:46,296 --> 01:04:47,676 - That's disgusting! 1187 01:04:47,711 --> 01:04:49,402 This is disgusting. - I think we're gonna 1188 01:04:49,437 --> 01:04:50,541 call a recess. - Now don't. 1189 01:04:50,576 --> 01:04:54,028 - I have been coming to board meetings for 11 years! 1190 01:04:54,062 --> 01:04:56,547 - Don't touch her. - It's absurd! 1191 01:04:56,582 --> 01:04:57,686 Everybody's playing around 1192 01:04:57,721 --> 01:04:58,687 about what the context of this is. 1193 01:04:58,722 --> 01:05:00,655 Nobody's talking about censoring the book, 1194 01:05:00,689 --> 01:05:02,760 nobody's talking about banning the book or burning 1195 01:05:02,795 --> 01:05:04,521 the book or anything. 1196 01:05:04,555 --> 01:05:06,247 - If they would engage in sex, 1197 01:05:06,281 --> 01:05:07,327 as it is suggested in these books, 1198 01:05:07,351 --> 01:05:11,286 the students are well on their way to catch STD. 1199 01:05:12,356 --> 01:05:14,841 - I have to tell you though, I was thinking 1200 01:05:14,876 --> 01:05:16,843 that when I was younger, 1201 01:05:16,878 --> 01:05:21,503 around 13, if it would have been so easy 1202 01:05:21,538 --> 01:05:24,196 to find the dirty books in the library 1203 01:05:24,230 --> 01:05:27,958 because they were labeled, that would have been perfect. 1204 01:05:27,993 --> 01:05:29,822 That would have been great. 1205 01:05:29,856 --> 01:05:33,826 - Our children exposed to explicit, 1206 01:05:33,860 --> 01:05:36,691 filthy, racist things. 1207 01:05:37,692 --> 01:05:42,007 - There's emotion, there is anger. 1208 01:05:42,041 --> 01:05:45,113 - The ending part says the wood cutter 1209 01:05:45,148 --> 01:05:48,910 took a pair of scissors and cut open the stomach 1210 01:05:48,945 --> 01:05:52,017 of the wolf to free grandma and Riding Hood. 1211 01:05:52,949 --> 01:05:55,986 This is scary and gory for kindergarten. 1212 01:05:56,021 --> 01:05:59,990 - There is disgust, there is self-righteousness. 1213 01:06:00,025 --> 01:06:04,822 - These children came from our wombs. 1214 01:06:04,857 --> 01:06:09,482 You have them as teachers for a small part of a day. 1215 01:06:10,311 --> 01:06:12,209 We have 'em for a lifetime. 1216 01:06:12,244 --> 01:06:14,694 - Parents come in armed with the books 1217 01:06:14,729 --> 01:06:16,110 marked with passages. 1218 01:06:16,144 --> 01:06:18,664 Maybe they're highlighted, maybe they have Post-It notes 1219 01:06:18,698 --> 01:06:21,839 in them, they're ready to spout off all the words. 1220 01:06:21,874 --> 01:06:24,221 Maybe they counted all the curse words. 1221 01:06:24,256 --> 01:06:26,258 - I'm going to read out loud some information 1222 01:06:26,292 --> 01:06:29,157 and excerpts from the book The Handmaid's Tale. 1223 01:06:29,192 --> 01:06:31,332 This book has 300 pages which contain 1224 01:06:31,366 --> 01:06:33,437 some of the following. - People want to get up 1225 01:06:33,472 --> 01:06:35,853 on that soapbox and say I am so much better 1226 01:06:35,888 --> 01:06:37,096 than this book! 1227 01:06:37,131 --> 01:06:38,718 I don't read this smut. 1228 01:06:38,753 --> 01:06:42,688 - Seven sex acts, 64 sexual allusions, 1229 01:06:42,722 --> 01:06:46,243 11 references to suicide with three being carried out, 1230 01:06:46,278 --> 01:06:50,661 others include drugs, drinking, smoking, and profanity. 1231 01:06:50,696 --> 01:06:53,147 - We all have to be able to stand for almighty God 1232 01:06:53,181 --> 01:06:56,667 and be judged for our actions. 1233 01:06:56,702 --> 01:07:00,395 That being said, I'm very concerned for every one of you 1234 01:07:00,430 --> 01:07:03,364 and everybody in this community 1235 01:07:03,398 --> 01:07:05,780 that is willing to place this type 1236 01:07:05,814 --> 01:07:07,954 of material upon our children. 1237 01:07:07,989 --> 01:07:12,511 - And I don't want to necessarily stand up 1238 01:07:12,545 --> 01:07:17,550 for curse words or sexually explicit scenes or violence. 1239 01:07:17,964 --> 01:07:22,038 They use these words that are not true to the book. 1240 01:07:22,072 --> 01:07:23,222 They'll say that this young adult book 1241 01:07:23,246 --> 01:07:25,386 that is a best seller and was turned 1242 01:07:25,420 --> 01:07:27,077 into a movie is pornography. 1243 01:07:27,112 --> 01:07:29,424 It's not pornography, there's a sex scene in it. 1244 01:07:29,459 --> 01:07:31,254 It doesn't make it pornography. 1245 01:07:31,288 --> 01:07:32,369 - What's so fascinating about them 1246 01:07:32,393 --> 01:07:35,085 is that people are talking about reading 1247 01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:38,847 and the act of reading and how much it has influence 1248 01:07:38,882 --> 01:07:40,711 over someone's life. 1249 01:07:40,746 --> 01:07:44,336 - And too often the only support these young people 1250 01:07:44,370 --> 01:07:47,684 can find is in their library where they can read 1251 01:07:47,718 --> 01:07:49,962 from a book that there's someone else 1252 01:07:49,996 --> 01:07:53,172 who's experiencing the same thing. 1253 01:07:53,207 --> 01:07:56,072 - Reading is one of the most powerful practices 1254 01:07:56,106 --> 01:07:58,177 that we could do and that's what you see 1255 01:07:58,212 --> 01:08:01,870 at a book hearing, is the passion 1256 01:08:01,905 --> 01:08:03,527 that people talk about books. 1257 01:08:03,562 --> 01:08:06,289 I've found, when I studied book censors, 1258 01:08:06,323 --> 01:08:10,224 is that it actually changes with whatever's going on 1259 01:08:10,258 --> 01:08:13,468 in society, and often this happens in times of strife. 1260 01:08:13,503 --> 01:08:18,128 So one time was during the Civil War, 1261 01:08:18,163 --> 01:08:22,167 during the World War II. 1262 01:08:22,201 --> 01:08:24,065 What we see in the '80s was of course 1263 01:08:24,100 --> 01:08:25,653 the rise of the religious right. 1264 01:08:25,687 --> 01:08:29,277 There were all these scares about sickness 1265 01:08:29,312 --> 01:08:32,522 in your neighborhood where there was like, 1266 01:08:32,556 --> 01:08:34,938 ritual child sacrifice taking place 1267 01:08:34,972 --> 01:08:37,596 in your suburban neighborhood. 1268 01:08:37,630 --> 01:08:40,461 It was just in the ether then, 1269 01:08:40,495 --> 01:08:43,498 so of course because you were hearing on the news 1270 01:08:43,533 --> 01:08:46,777 that there were satanists in your neighborhood, 1271 01:08:46,812 --> 01:08:48,710 of course, you would be concerned about books 1272 01:08:48,745 --> 01:08:51,368 that seemed to touch on these ideas. 1273 01:08:51,403 --> 01:08:53,301 What I'm seeing now as we move 1274 01:08:53,336 --> 01:08:55,752 towards a more multicultural society 1275 01:08:55,786 --> 01:08:58,410 is you see more books about LGBTQIA populations 1276 01:08:58,444 --> 01:09:03,415 about ethnic minorities, those sorts of books 1277 01:09:03,794 --> 01:09:07,764 are what we see now that are being challenged. 1278 01:09:07,798 --> 01:09:11,181 - If those stories get lost and get replaced 1279 01:09:11,216 --> 01:09:16,221 by artificial stories, then I think we've lost something. 1280 01:09:16,704 --> 01:09:19,707 It's not that these are nice stories, they certainly aren't 1281 01:09:19,741 --> 01:09:24,056 and perhaps some of these stories deserve 1282 01:09:24,090 --> 01:09:27,956 to be put on the dustbin of history, 1283 01:09:27,991 --> 01:09:30,442 but they are still authentic, 1284 01:09:30,476 --> 01:09:33,341 authentic tot he groups themselves 1285 01:09:33,376 --> 01:09:35,895 and I would hate to be in a society 1286 01:09:35,930 --> 01:09:40,935 in which children's stories are so thoroughly 1287 01:09:40,969 --> 01:09:43,213 controlled by adults. 1288 01:09:43,248 --> 01:09:47,010 - Dealing still with issues of identity 1289 01:09:47,044 --> 01:09:52,049 that have to do with how you, many ways, still how you think 1290 01:09:52,084 --> 01:09:54,604 about your parents is connected with how you think 1291 01:09:54,638 --> 01:09:59,643 about yourself and despite the fact that he had written 1292 01:09:59,988 --> 01:10:04,338 all these books and had his ups and downs 1293 01:10:04,372 --> 01:10:07,755 and still was at it and this was how he supported his family 1294 01:10:07,789 --> 01:10:12,725 through the years, I just didn't understand 1295 01:10:16,384 --> 01:10:19,525 what his goal was as a writer. 1296 01:10:21,147 --> 01:10:23,011 I remember being in the living room with him 1297 01:10:23,046 --> 01:10:24,910 and I was probably in my early 20s 1298 01:10:24,944 --> 01:10:28,154 and telling him that I felt like he was, 1299 01:10:33,470 --> 01:10:35,369 let's see, what was it? 1300 01:10:40,339 --> 01:10:44,792 Basically I said I don't think what you've done 1301 01:10:44,826 --> 01:10:47,726 is worthwhile, I don't know why 1302 01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:49,969 you don't do more ambitious projects. 1303 01:10:50,004 --> 01:10:52,869 I basically said these are small little works 1304 01:10:52,903 --> 01:10:57,874 of no consequence, and I was probably in graduate school 1305 01:10:58,530 --> 01:11:01,774 at the time and doing things which I imagined 1306 01:11:01,809 --> 01:11:06,365 to be of enormous consequence and I remember, 1307 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:08,194 it must have hurt a lot. 1308 01:11:08,229 --> 01:11:12,233 He looked at me and all he said was, 1309 01:11:12,268 --> 01:11:14,373 "You don't want to know 1310 01:11:14,408 --> 01:11:16,410 "what I'm thinking about you right now." 1311 01:11:17,514 --> 01:11:21,207 And I'd like to say, because I was in my early 30s 1312 01:11:21,242 --> 01:11:24,418 when he died, I'd like to say that we had repaired 1313 01:11:24,452 --> 01:11:28,491 our relationship by then, but it wouldn't be true. 1314 01:11:42,608 --> 01:11:44,679 - And then I found out that Alvin Schwartz 1315 01:11:44,714 --> 01:11:49,719 had been invited to come to our young author's conference 1316 01:11:50,029 --> 01:11:53,343 and I said, "Well, I would certainly like to meet the man 1317 01:11:53,378 --> 01:11:55,725 "to ask him that question, do you feel 1318 01:11:55,759 --> 01:12:00,246 "that these are appropriate for our age group, 1319 01:12:00,281 --> 01:12:02,697 "for five to 11-year-olds?" 1320 01:12:02,732 --> 01:12:04,803 But then he got sick and passed away, 1321 01:12:04,837 --> 01:12:07,978 so I never did get to ask that question. 1322 01:12:08,013 --> 01:12:09,704 I don't feel that it is. 1323 01:12:09,739 --> 01:12:14,571 I've seen so much of the violence 1324 01:12:14,606 --> 01:12:16,021 that was also in these books. 1325 01:12:16,055 --> 01:12:18,817 It think it's affected our society. 1326 01:12:18,851 --> 01:12:22,752 I don't want to blame all of the violence, 1327 01:12:22,786 --> 01:12:25,444 but it's like, it made it okay. 1328 01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:27,550 I guess I would ask Peter the same question. 1329 01:12:27,584 --> 01:12:30,898 How do you feel that it's age appropriate 1330 01:12:30,932 --> 01:12:33,176 for elementary school level? 1331 01:12:46,879 --> 01:12:48,467 - Oh, it has this wrapper on it. 1332 01:12:51,194 --> 01:12:52,644 Just unwrap it. - Yeah. 1333 01:12:56,751 --> 01:12:57,545 Can I? 1334 01:12:57,580 --> 01:12:58,581 I need to start. 1335 01:12:58,615 --> 01:12:59,661 Let's just start. - I'm actually channeling 1336 01:12:59,685 --> 01:13:00,548 my father right now. - Let's start. 1337 01:13:00,583 --> 01:13:03,171 - He would have been a wreck doing this. 1338 01:13:06,485 --> 01:13:10,075 Sandy was like, the spearhead of this movement 1339 01:13:10,109 --> 01:13:13,837 in Kirkland 25 years ago and it was almost 25 years 1340 01:13:13,872 --> 01:13:16,012 to the day that they had their hearing 1341 01:13:16,046 --> 01:13:19,602 which I know the Seattle Times when they wrote about it 1342 01:13:19,636 --> 01:13:21,707 talked about the length of the hearing, 1343 01:13:21,742 --> 01:13:24,952 which was like seven hours was a scary story, 1344 01:13:24,986 --> 01:13:26,988 terrifying in itself that people 1345 01:13:27,023 --> 01:13:28,334 would have to sit through that. 1346 01:13:28,369 --> 01:13:30,406 So I'm really interested in all the time 1347 01:13:30,440 --> 01:13:33,685 that's passed to recapture some of the energy 1348 01:13:33,719 --> 01:13:35,756 and the concerns. 1349 01:13:38,966 --> 01:13:39,932 Hi, Sandy. 1350 01:13:39,967 --> 01:13:40,761 - Hi. - I'm Peter Schwartz. 1351 01:13:40,795 --> 01:13:42,141 - Hi Peter. - Nice to meet you. 1352 01:13:42,176 --> 01:13:43,108 - Nice to meet you, too. 1353 01:13:43,142 --> 01:13:44,109 - Yeah, thank you so much for coming up. 1354 01:13:44,143 --> 01:13:46,076 - Yeah, sure! - It's great 1355 01:13:46,111 --> 01:13:47,250 to have you come up 1356 01:13:47,284 --> 01:13:50,322 and it's kind of amazing after 25 years. 1357 01:13:50,356 --> 01:13:53,601 - I know, I know. - And I would love 1358 01:13:53,636 --> 01:13:58,641 to learn more about your experience 1359 01:13:59,020 --> 01:14:02,230 and how it seems to you now from this distance in time 1360 01:14:02,265 --> 01:14:05,061 and what you were thinking or what made you 1361 01:14:05,095 --> 01:14:08,098 decide to come up. - I think because I felt 1362 01:14:08,133 --> 01:14:11,170 like the whole story hadn't been told. 1363 01:14:11,205 --> 01:14:15,036 Being parents, the schools are always asking 1364 01:14:15,071 --> 01:14:18,108 for our opinion on how do you feel about this 1365 01:14:18,143 --> 01:14:20,732 or at the end of the year or during conferences, 1366 01:14:20,766 --> 01:14:23,148 is there anything we can do better? 1367 01:14:23,182 --> 01:14:25,564 But then when we actually say something, 1368 01:14:25,599 --> 01:14:29,016 I feel like they're like, we don't want to know. 1369 01:14:29,050 --> 01:14:32,329 I got phone calls from parents. 1370 01:14:32,364 --> 01:14:34,780 That's how I initially found out about the books 1371 01:14:34,815 --> 01:14:37,265 because the kids are talking about this 1372 01:14:37,300 --> 01:14:38,508 on the playground. 1373 01:14:38,543 --> 01:14:40,752 They're upset about it. 1374 01:14:40,786 --> 01:14:45,204 It's not that I want them banned or censored 1375 01:14:45,239 --> 01:14:47,897 or whatever, I just don't think they're age appropriate 1376 01:14:47,931 --> 01:14:49,864 for elementary school children. 1377 01:14:50,900 --> 01:14:52,798 That is my question to you, 1378 01:14:52,833 --> 01:14:55,387 do you feel that they're age appropriate? 1379 01:14:57,044 --> 01:15:02,049 - Well that's, I mean, it's a really good question. 1380 01:15:02,394 --> 01:15:05,777 I don't have a single answer, but I do understand 1381 01:15:05,811 --> 01:15:07,779 the concern and the kids that talk about it now 1382 01:15:07,813 --> 01:15:09,297 are the ones that remember it as like, 1383 01:15:09,332 --> 01:15:14,337 as some of them I remember said in the Kirkland situation 1384 01:15:14,751 --> 01:15:15,925 that these are the books 1385 01:15:15,959 --> 01:15:18,272 that got them excited about reading. 1386 01:15:18,306 --> 01:15:20,412 Kids don't read as much as they used to. 1387 01:15:20,446 --> 01:15:21,655 That is very upsetting to me. 1388 01:15:21,689 --> 01:15:23,173 I don't care what they read. 1389 01:15:23,208 --> 01:15:25,106 I'd rather they read than just be... 1390 01:15:25,141 --> 01:15:28,593 - Ah, my grandsons love books. - That's huge! 1391 01:15:28,627 --> 01:15:30,664 - You're a censor, your a book fan, 1392 01:15:30,698 --> 01:15:33,321 or whatever, you don't really want to hear 1393 01:15:33,356 --> 01:15:35,945 what our true feelings were. 1394 01:15:35,979 --> 01:15:39,120 - He had always had an academic perspective on them. 1395 01:15:39,155 --> 01:15:42,261 He, I think, loved the attention that he got 1396 01:15:42,296 --> 01:15:44,574 and the illustrations are brilliant, 1397 01:15:44,609 --> 01:15:46,783 but in many ways. - They're frightening. 1398 01:15:46,818 --> 01:15:47,784 They were frightening. - Yeah, they were terrifying, 1399 01:15:47,819 --> 01:15:49,027 but I mean, he's a genius. 1400 01:15:49,061 --> 01:15:51,408 And when you give your kids over to a school 1401 01:15:51,443 --> 01:15:54,791 and we have a crisis of institutional legitimacy 1402 01:15:54,826 --> 01:15:57,829 these days where everybody's saying all of our public 1403 01:15:57,863 --> 01:16:01,487 institutions have failed, and how do you balance 1404 01:16:01,522 --> 01:16:04,456 the issue of decision making and control? 1405 01:16:04,490 --> 01:16:08,356 But a lot of it had to do with people 1406 01:16:08,391 --> 01:16:13,361 who were saying it was satanic or that there was, 1407 01:16:14,984 --> 01:16:17,503 it was not so much about what's age appropriate 1408 01:16:17,538 --> 01:16:21,024 as that this is stuff that is contaminating, 1409 01:16:21,059 --> 01:16:23,440 it contaminates our entire culture, 1410 01:16:23,475 --> 01:16:27,375 our heritage, our religious beliefs. 1411 01:16:27,410 --> 01:16:31,345 It's an offense to our existence. 1412 01:16:31,379 --> 01:16:33,485 - I know that there was a couple of people 1413 01:16:33,519 --> 01:16:38,524 that brought it up, the demonic, and I guess I don't know 1414 01:16:39,629 --> 01:16:42,045 why that's even in there. 1415 01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:45,048 To me, it's like why do you want to even? 1416 01:16:45,083 --> 01:16:50,088 But if it was folklore, it was just to me a lot of evil. 1417 01:16:52,297 --> 01:16:54,713 - I think he also felt like he had an obligation 1418 01:16:55,956 --> 01:17:00,961 to kind of preserve them in written form 1419 01:17:01,651 --> 01:17:06,173 and without judging him, I don't think he was thinking 1420 01:17:06,207 --> 01:17:11,212 a lot about the impact they would have in particular ways 1421 01:17:11,454 --> 01:17:12,731 on particular people. 1422 01:17:12,766 --> 01:17:14,906 I think they were really interesting to him 1423 01:17:17,253 --> 01:17:18,471 as a reflection of how we manage 1424 01:17:18,495 --> 01:17:21,844 and think about anxieties and how we address the problem 1425 01:17:21,878 --> 01:17:24,467 of evil because there is evil in the world. 1426 01:17:24,501 --> 01:17:26,376 My dad, I think, was really good at what he did. 1427 01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:29,955 He had a journalist background and really cared 1428 01:17:29,990 --> 01:17:34,684 a lot about getting the story right and about research. 1429 01:17:34,719 --> 01:17:37,998 He was a craftsman when it came to words 1430 01:17:38,032 --> 01:17:40,656 and this is out there, this is stuff 1431 01:17:40,690 --> 01:17:42,737 where it's on the kinds of margins of our consciousness 1432 01:17:42,761 --> 01:17:45,212 where we think about really important issues 1433 01:17:45,246 --> 01:17:48,456 of who we are, what it means to be human 1434 01:17:48,491 --> 01:17:52,598 and what it means to die and where does danger exist 1435 01:17:52,633 --> 01:17:54,531 and how do we think about it and do with it 1436 01:17:54,566 --> 01:17:55,886 and these are things that all kids 1437 01:17:55,912 --> 01:17:58,363 need to think about. - And I understand 1438 01:17:58,397 --> 01:18:00,399 that. 1439 01:18:20,730 --> 01:18:24,700 - In fact, we don't talk about reading very much anymore 1440 01:18:24,734 --> 01:18:26,805 and how much reading means to us. 1441 01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:28,773 Talking about reading is difficult for people 1442 01:18:28,807 --> 01:18:31,258 because reading is such a personalized process, 1443 01:18:31,292 --> 01:18:34,433 but in fact, the way you see how much reading 1444 01:18:34,468 --> 01:18:35,756 means to someone is if you're trying 1445 01:18:35,780 --> 01:18:37,540 to take it away from them. 1446 01:18:41,786 --> 01:18:45,237 - When he died, he had achieved a fair amount of success 1447 01:18:45,272 --> 01:18:48,896 and was pretty well known in the little world 1448 01:18:48,931 --> 01:18:53,936 he was part of, but there was almost no one at his, 1449 01:18:55,489 --> 01:19:00,494 we had a graveside service and there were probably 1450 01:19:03,393 --> 01:19:05,602 only like 15 people there, max. 1451 01:19:05,637 --> 01:19:09,365 I mean, his family, he didn't have a community 1452 01:19:09,399 --> 01:19:11,885 to mourn for him in the sense that I think 1453 01:19:11,919 --> 01:19:17,304 a lot of people do. 1454 01:19:17,338 --> 01:19:21,687 But he was able, it really was a surprise to me, 1455 01:19:22,343 --> 01:19:26,934 but he was able to leave despite that, quite a legacy. 1456 01:20:03,005 --> 01:20:05,283 - We were thinking of an idea that we could use 1457 01:20:05,317 --> 01:20:08,148 and I came up with the idea like man, 1458 01:20:08,182 --> 01:20:11,392 Scary Stories, everybody loves these like, everybody. 1459 01:20:11,427 --> 01:20:14,085 I mean, people in my family, all of my friends, 1460 01:20:14,119 --> 01:20:16,052 we all loved this book. 1461 01:20:16,087 --> 01:20:19,262 I saw so much interest, so many people sharing it, 1462 01:20:19,297 --> 01:20:21,575 so many people liking it, so many people commenting 1463 01:20:21,609 --> 01:20:24,164 like, this is amazing, this is amazing. 1464 01:20:24,198 --> 01:20:26,649 You still see it to this day 1465 01:20:26,683 --> 01:20:28,582 as far as influence on musicians, 1466 01:20:28,616 --> 01:20:33,483 you see it in movies, you see it in artists. 1467 01:20:33,518 --> 01:20:36,141 I mean, it was a huge deal and I think it still 1468 01:20:36,176 --> 01:20:37,349 is a huge deal. 1469 01:20:37,384 --> 01:20:38,834 - You know, what life is all about, 1470 01:20:38,868 --> 01:20:41,353 just the dark aspects and I don't think it's a bad thing. 1471 01:20:41,388 --> 01:20:45,150 You grow out of it and you love it. 1472 01:20:45,185 --> 01:20:46,255 You really appreciate it. 1473 01:20:46,289 --> 01:20:48,188 - You should be a little scared, you know? 1474 01:20:48,222 --> 01:20:50,673 There should be some kind of excitement between that. 1475 01:20:50,707 --> 01:20:53,020 I mean, if everything's just handed to you 1476 01:20:53,055 --> 01:20:55,505 and sugar coat it, how do you take on the world? 1477 01:20:55,540 --> 01:20:57,542 That's just like, 'cause it needs to be striking. 1478 01:20:57,576 --> 01:20:58,657 That's how we remember it to this day. 1479 01:20:58,681 --> 01:21:00,717 - When we started doing this event 1480 01:21:00,752 --> 01:21:02,236 and even up until recently, 1481 01:21:02,271 --> 01:21:05,446 when I was sharing on websites and man, 1482 01:21:05,481 --> 01:21:10,141 in minutes, the status were being shared all over the place. 1483 01:21:10,175 --> 01:21:13,903 I've read people asking to take this exhibit 1484 01:21:13,938 --> 01:21:16,423 to Dallas, to take it to Houston. 1485 01:21:16,457 --> 01:21:19,150 I've seen people, why don't you take it to California? 1486 01:21:19,184 --> 01:21:20,392 It's mind blowing. 1487 01:21:20,427 --> 01:21:25,328 This isn't a little thing, this is huge, this is worldwide 1488 01:21:26,088 --> 01:21:31,093 and it's amazing, it really is amazing. 1489 01:21:31,127 --> 01:21:36,201 I can't believe it's been so long and yet people 1490 01:21:36,236 --> 01:21:38,824 love these books, they love these stories, 1491 01:21:38,859 --> 01:21:40,102 they love this artwork. 1492 01:21:40,136 --> 01:21:43,622 It's just honestly, it's never gonna go away. 1493 01:21:43,646 --> 01:21:46,646 Subtitles Diego Moraes(oakislandtk) www.opensubtitles.org 1493 01:21:47,305 --> 01:22:47,320 Please rate this subtitle at www.osdb.link/78f2b Help other users to choose the best subtitles