1
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:12,074
Advertise your product or brand here
contact www.OpenSubtitles.org today
2
00:00:36,312 --> 00:00:37,692
- Zach? Same place.
- Ah, got ya.
3
00:00:37,727 --> 00:00:38,797
- Great.
4
00:00:38,831 --> 00:00:39,625
Yeah, is that okay?
5
00:00:39,660 --> 00:00:40,454
Okay.
6
00:00:40,488 --> 00:00:41,282
- Let me tune up real quick,
7
00:00:41,317 --> 00:00:42,214
make sure it's good. - Sure.
8
00:00:42,249 --> 00:00:44,492
- When I was a kid, I loved
monsters.
9
00:00:44,527 --> 00:00:47,116
- My mom always let me
watch monster movies.
10
00:00:47,150 --> 00:00:50,671
Of course, when I saw those
books, I had never seen
11
00:00:50,705 --> 00:00:53,087
a children's book
with drawings like that.
12
00:00:56,780 --> 00:00:58,955
I wouldn't be writing monster
songs and creepy songs
13
00:00:58,989 --> 00:01:01,199
about death if it
wasn't for books
14
00:01:01,233 --> 00:01:03,097
like Scary Stories to
Tell In the Dark
15
00:01:03,132 --> 00:01:04,892
and the things that
I enjoyed as a kid
16
00:01:04,926 --> 00:01:06,721
that influenced me
and got me excited
17
00:01:06,756 --> 00:01:08,723
about songs about death.
18
00:01:08,758 --> 00:01:11,761
♪ Don't ever laugh
as a hearse goes by ♪
19
00:01:11,795 --> 00:01:15,834
♪ For you may
be the next to die ♪
20
00:01:15,868 --> 00:01:18,078
Well that first line
obviously is just saying
21
00:01:18,112 --> 00:01:23,566
that we're all gonna die
and death is what we're all
22
00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,086
waiting for, death is
what we want.
23
00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,537
We just don't want to get
there sooner than we have to.
24
00:01:29,572 --> 00:01:32,885
♪ The worms play
Pinochle on your snout ♪
25
00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,475
♪ They eat your eyes,
they eat your nose ♪
26
00:01:36,510 --> 00:01:40,755
♪ They eat the jelly
between your toes ♪
27
00:01:40,790 --> 00:01:45,277
Those lines, I think those
lines are in every rendition
28
00:01:45,312 --> 00:01:46,589
of the hearse song.
29
00:01:46,623 --> 00:01:49,143
I think that was
one no matter who's,
30
00:01:49,178 --> 00:01:51,052
'cause it's changed so much
and everyone has their own
31
00:01:51,076 --> 00:01:52,743
version of it and you go
to summer camp and kids
32
00:01:52,767 --> 00:01:56,150
make up new lyrics for it,
but they pretty much all
33
00:01:56,185 --> 00:02:00,603
have that verse in
it and Pinochle,
34
00:02:00,637 --> 00:02:02,536
I don't even know
how to play that.
35
00:02:02,570 --> 00:02:04,193
I don't know if I
know what it is.
36
00:02:04,227 --> 00:02:05,677
It's a card game?
37
00:02:05,711 --> 00:02:10,302
♪ And that is the end of a
perfect day ♪
38
00:02:12,166 --> 00:02:14,075
It ends on a really happy
note, so death doesn't have to
39
00:02:14,099 --> 00:02:16,653
be really a bad thing,
it doesn't have to be.
40
00:02:16,688 --> 00:02:20,347
It's natural and it's
good and at the end,
41
00:02:20,381 --> 00:02:23,557
we decay in our beautiful
bodies and beautiful faces,
42
00:02:23,591 --> 00:02:25,628
start to droop and
our eyes fall out
43
00:02:25,662 --> 00:02:29,459
and our chests cave in and
the worms invite their friends
44
00:02:29,494 --> 00:02:34,223
to come party inside our bodies.
45
00:02:34,257 --> 00:02:36,397
It's a good thing,
it's a good thing.
46
00:02:36,432 --> 00:02:38,503
We should teach our
children it's a good thing.
47
00:03:01,353 --> 00:03:05,150
♪ Don't ever laugh as
the hearse goes by ♪
48
00:03:05,185 --> 00:03:08,705
♪ For you may be
the next to die ♪
49
00:03:08,740 --> 00:03:12,813
♪ They'll wrap you up
in a big white sheet ♪
50
00:03:12,847 --> 00:03:16,610
♪ From your head
down to your feet ♪
51
00:03:16,644 --> 00:03:21,649
♪ They put you in a big
black box and cover you up ♪
52
00:03:22,098 --> 00:03:27,103
♪ With dirt and rocks and all
goes well for about a week ♪
53
00:03:28,242 --> 00:03:32,281
♪ And then your coffin
begins to leak ♪
54
00:03:32,315 --> 00:03:36,008
♪ And the worms crawl in,
the worms crawl out ♪
55
00:03:36,043 --> 00:03:39,978
♪ The worms play
Pinochle on your snout ♪
56
00:03:40,012 --> 00:03:44,051
♪ They eat your eyes,
they eat your nose ♪
57
00:03:44,085 --> 00:03:48,262
♪ They eat the jelly
between your toes ♪
58
00:03:48,297 --> 00:03:52,059
♪ They invite their friends
and their friends to ♪
59
00:03:52,093 --> 00:03:56,270
♪ They all come down
to chew on you ♪
60
00:03:56,305 --> 00:03:59,998
♪ And this is
what it is to die ♪
61
00:04:00,032 --> 00:04:04,002
♪ I hope you had a
nice goodbye ♪
62
00:04:04,036 --> 00:04:07,971
♪ Did you ever think
as a hearse goes by ♪
63
00:04:08,006 --> 00:04:11,906
♪ That you may be
the next to die ♪
64
00:04:11,941 --> 00:04:16,186
♪ And your eyes fall out
and your death decay ♪
65
00:04:16,221 --> 00:04:20,812
♪ And that is the end of a
perfect day ♪
66
00:04:32,237 --> 00:04:34,377
- It'll resonate with you
on one level as a young kid
67
00:04:34,412 --> 00:04:36,759
and then when you go back
and revisit those Stories
68
00:04:36,793 --> 00:04:39,934
as an adult, you appreciate
totally different things
69
00:04:39,969 --> 00:04:41,395
that you never noticed
when you were young.
70
00:04:41,419 --> 00:04:44,180
- Every kid from the '80s
and '90s knew these stories.
71
00:04:44,214 --> 00:04:46,355
Ever sleepover we would
tell these stories,
72
00:04:46,389 --> 00:04:48,184
long car trips, recess.
73
00:04:48,218 --> 00:04:50,842
- You had to sign up a
couple weeks in advance
74
00:04:50,876 --> 00:04:52,326
if you wanted to get them.
75
00:04:52,361 --> 00:04:53,683
- I know it's the first
place that I always shot to
76
00:04:53,707 --> 00:04:56,192
when I went to the library,
was to look for these books
77
00:04:56,226 --> 00:04:58,850
on the shelves and every
single copy looked like
78
00:04:58,884 --> 00:05:00,852
it has been worn out.
79
00:05:00,886 --> 00:05:03,820
- The Scary Stories
book is my childhood,
80
00:05:03,855 --> 00:05:05,753
a very important
part of my childhood.
81
00:05:05,788 --> 00:05:08,135
- They still have power
now to adults I think,
82
00:05:08,169 --> 00:05:11,966
but to a kid they're
just this perfect blend
83
00:05:12,001 --> 00:05:16,592
of frightening and mysterious
84
00:05:17,903 --> 00:05:19,974
and a little bit
beautiful, I think.
85
00:05:20,009 --> 00:05:22,874
- I kinda felt like I had
discovered something amazing
86
00:05:22,908 --> 00:05:25,601
and I had to share
that with everybody.
87
00:05:25,635 --> 00:05:28,466
- Scary Stories to Tell in
the Dark were a collection
88
00:05:28,500 --> 00:05:32,953
of three books that my
dad wrote in the 1980s
89
00:05:32,987 --> 00:05:36,922
and early 1990s, emerged out
of his interest in folklore,
90
00:05:36,957 --> 00:05:38,717
folk tales, folk humor.
91
00:05:38,752 --> 00:05:42,583
His efforts to capture that
tradition in the United States
92
00:05:42,618 --> 00:05:46,346
and around the world for kids
and now you have a generation
93
00:05:46,380 --> 00:05:48,900
of kids that grew up with
these books who are now
94
00:05:48,934 --> 00:05:50,729
themselves adults and parents.
95
00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,113
- Don't be scared!
96
00:05:55,147 --> 00:05:58,047
I'm the super sweet monster
with the super sweet
97
00:05:58,081 --> 00:06:00,394
new cereal, Count Chocula!
98
00:06:00,429 --> 00:06:05,054
- Careful, he's the super sweet
new cereal, Franken Berry.
99
00:06:07,436 --> 00:06:08,816
- Yuck!
- Creepy Crawlers
100
00:06:08,851 --> 00:06:11,198
Thingmaker II,
an electrical toy.
101
00:06:11,232 --> 00:06:14,028
- It's disgusting!
- Creepy Crawlers
102
00:06:14,063 --> 00:06:15,098
Thingmaker II.
103
00:06:15,133 --> 00:06:18,136
- Has already received
enough U.S. aid.
104
00:06:18,170 --> 00:06:21,173
Parents and teachers in a
Seattle suburb will vote
105
00:06:21,208 --> 00:06:23,486
next week on a plan
to ban three books
106
00:06:23,521 --> 00:06:25,902
from an elementary
school library.
107
00:06:25,937 --> 00:06:27,017
Those who want to
get rid of the books
108
00:06:27,041 --> 00:06:29,941
say they're just too
gruesome for young readers.
109
00:06:29,975 --> 00:06:31,667
More from Susanna Frame.
110
00:06:31,701 --> 00:06:34,117
- I was upset by the graphic
illustrations
111
00:06:34,152 --> 00:06:36,741
and violent stories.
- Debate broke out here
112
00:06:36,775 --> 00:06:39,606
over death, the devil, and
dismemberment,
113
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,402
all topics stemming from
three thin books of folklore
114
00:06:42,436 --> 00:06:45,819
called the Scary Stories
by Alvin Schwartz.
115
00:06:45,853 --> 00:06:47,417
- And sure, they're
gonna be afraid of fires
116
00:06:47,441 --> 00:06:50,686
and drowning and strangers,
but why do they have to live
117
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,560
with this fear that
somebody's gonna chop 'em up
118
00:06:52,584 --> 00:06:54,137
and eat them?
119
00:06:54,172 --> 00:06:57,140
My name is Sandy Vrabel
and I am a retired
120
00:06:57,175 --> 00:07:00,005
grandmother and mother.
121
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,422
I was PTA president
at that time.
122
00:07:02,456 --> 00:07:04,458
How they were
brought to my attention
123
00:07:04,493 --> 00:07:07,599
was I had several
calls from parents.
124
00:07:07,634 --> 00:07:11,154
One of my neighbors,
her son had brought home
125
00:07:11,189 --> 00:07:14,468
one of the Scary Stories
and she said
126
00:07:14,503 --> 00:07:17,298
he was being very secretive,
and he was in the third grade
127
00:07:17,333 --> 00:07:20,370
and she said, "Normally,
he didn't have a problem
128
00:07:20,405 --> 00:07:23,788
"showing me his backpack,
but that day he seemed
129
00:07:23,822 --> 00:07:28,448
"very mysterious, and later on
when I went to say goodnight,
130
00:07:28,482 --> 00:07:32,382
"he was hiding under the
covers with a flashlight."
131
00:07:40,149 --> 00:07:43,186
She asked him what he was
looking at and he tried
132
00:07:43,221 --> 00:07:46,120
to hide the book, so that
gave me an incentive then
133
00:07:46,155 --> 00:07:49,745
to definitely go talk
to the librarian.
134
00:07:49,779 --> 00:07:52,506
So she got defensive
and said I needed
135
00:07:52,541 --> 00:07:54,853
to go discuss it
with the principal.
136
00:07:54,888 --> 00:07:58,754
He said to me, "Well, if you
are really concerned about this
137
00:07:58,788 --> 00:08:03,413
"then what you may want to
do is challenge the books."
138
00:08:03,448 --> 00:08:05,415
And then of course, it
hit the Seattle media
139
00:08:05,450 --> 00:08:09,592
and then it just escalated
from there and I thought
140
00:08:09,627 --> 00:08:13,182
oh my gosh,
this is out of control.
141
00:08:13,216 --> 00:08:15,909
- Alvin was thrilled
at the publicity he got
142
00:08:15,943 --> 00:08:18,774
from his books being
banned in some places.
143
00:08:19,740 --> 00:08:22,225
He just thought that was
wonderful so.
144
00:08:24,883 --> 00:08:28,715
Alvin had a number of different
jobs with organizations,
145
00:08:28,749 --> 00:08:31,925
communications director,
editor, he tried a number
146
00:08:31,959 --> 00:08:34,479
of different kinds of places.
- Then he became
147
00:08:34,514 --> 00:08:38,448
a reporter, and I think was
the formative experience
148
00:08:38,483 --> 00:08:43,281
as an adult in terms of
his professional identity.
149
00:08:43,315 --> 00:08:45,559
He had the instincts,
he had the skills,
150
00:08:45,594 --> 00:08:50,357
and the experiences of a
really, very good journalist.
151
00:08:50,391 --> 00:08:52,773
- It think he loved
reporting, inquiry, you know?
152
00:08:52,808 --> 00:08:56,605
It was all about finding the
answer to a question he had,
153
00:08:56,639 --> 00:09:00,470
which was what makes this
tick, why is this interesting?
154
00:09:00,505 --> 00:09:01,955
And he was a bulldog.
155
00:09:01,989 --> 00:09:03,577
He really knew how to do
research.
156
00:09:03,612 --> 00:09:06,407
- My name is
William Simmons Tyler.
157
00:09:06,442 --> 00:09:11,447
I was born in Bangor,
Maine January 27, 1900.
158
00:09:12,793 --> 00:09:15,934
- What I am
trying to do, I'm a writer
159
00:09:15,969 --> 00:09:19,731
and I've written about 25 books.
160
00:09:20,905 --> 00:09:23,493
I'm very interesting in
folklore and folk life
161
00:09:23,528 --> 00:09:27,912
and what this book is
is a book on growing up
162
00:09:27,946 --> 00:09:29,223
a long time ago.
163
00:09:29,258 --> 00:09:30,708
Did you have any
children at all?
164
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:47,379
That's funny.
165
00:09:47,414 --> 00:09:49,209
I never heard that before.
166
00:09:49,243 --> 00:09:51,763
Where did you learn that?
167
00:09:51,798 --> 00:09:53,627
- Well, it's.
- You just carried it
168
00:09:53,662 --> 00:09:54,662
around with you?
169
00:10:06,157 --> 00:10:08,169
- I do remember falling asleep
to the sound of him typing
170
00:10:08,193 --> 00:10:10,713
on a manual typewriter
in the next room.
171
00:10:10,748 --> 00:10:14,959
- You could imagine this
progression of the seasons
172
00:10:14,993 --> 00:10:17,996
cinematically from spring,
to summer, to fall,
173
00:10:18,031 --> 00:10:22,276
to winter, and the flowers
blooming, the leaves turning
174
00:10:22,311 --> 00:10:25,659
and falling, the snow and my
dad, it just was a constant.
175
00:10:25,694 --> 00:10:28,075
You could always just see
him in there working away.
176
00:10:28,110 --> 00:10:30,491
My dad was writing
other books at the time.
177
00:10:30,526 --> 00:10:33,771
He lived through his
advances on books,
178
00:10:33,805 --> 00:10:37,844
so he really needed to have
a steady flow of projects
179
00:10:37,878 --> 00:10:40,812
and I think that indicates
that he himself
180
00:10:40,847 --> 00:10:45,161
and his publishers and agent,
they didn't really realize,
181
00:10:45,196 --> 00:10:47,025
which I think is often
true with books,
182
00:10:47,060 --> 00:10:52,030
is you can't predict which
books are gonna be successful
183
00:10:52,065 --> 00:10:53,791
and which aren't.
184
00:10:53,825 --> 00:10:56,932
He didn't have a clear
sense for many years
185
00:10:56,966 --> 00:10:58,588
that these were gonna
have the effect
186
00:10:58,623 --> 00:10:59,969
that they did.
- We really didn't
187
00:11:00,004 --> 00:11:02,972
have very much money,
so it was kind of touch
188
00:11:03,007 --> 00:11:05,354
and go for a while there.
189
00:11:05,388 --> 00:11:06,976
- In his lifetime as an author,
190
00:11:07,011 --> 00:11:12,016
he wrote, over a 30-year
period, he wrote over 50 books.
191
00:11:12,326 --> 00:11:14,052
So there were a lot of books.
192
00:11:14,087 --> 00:11:17,331
Some were successful, some
weren't and these he wrote
193
00:11:17,366 --> 00:11:19,851
in the last 10 years
of his life and I think
194
00:11:22,751 --> 00:11:27,169
he didn't actually live to
see most of the success.
195
00:11:27,203 --> 00:11:30,862
When I was little and my dad
was really just starting out
196
00:11:30,897 --> 00:11:33,416
as a book writer and he
was writing these books
197
00:11:33,451 --> 00:11:37,455
about, more for adults
about how to raise children,
198
00:11:37,489 --> 00:11:41,701
is really about how he
trained himself or tried
199
00:11:41,735 --> 00:11:44,496
to train himself to be a father,
200
00:11:44,531 --> 00:11:45,991
growing up in an environment
where his parents
201
00:11:46,015 --> 00:11:48,742
were just literally the worst
role model.
202
00:11:48,777 --> 00:11:51,124
I mean, he really
didn't know anything
203
00:11:51,158 --> 00:11:54,196
and it's interesting
that he would then
204
00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:56,992
pose as an expert
in these books.
205
00:11:57,026 --> 00:12:01,306
So this is one that I just
pulled out.
206
00:12:01,341 --> 00:12:06,380
That's when I was
about six years old
207
00:12:06,415 --> 00:12:10,695
and, or five years old
and he was probably 35.
208
00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:13,905
He took us out there one
day and he makes it clear
209
00:12:13,940 --> 00:12:17,564
in more than one book that
he hated stuff like fishing,
210
00:12:17,598 --> 00:12:18,530
didn't really know
anything about it,
211
00:12:18,565 --> 00:12:22,189
between this was an
example of an activity
212
00:12:22,224 --> 00:12:24,260
that one could do
with your children,
213
00:12:24,295 --> 00:12:25,548
and so he took me
and my brother.
214
00:12:25,572 --> 00:12:27,160
That's my brother,
he's two years older
215
00:12:27,194 --> 00:12:29,749
and that's me, and you can
see the few little sunfish
216
00:12:29,783 --> 00:12:34,512
that my brother caught
and he's holding our hand.
217
00:12:34,546 --> 00:12:38,619
Anyway, that was a photo
that I've had on my desk
218
00:12:40,104 --> 00:12:41,795
a lot of my adult life.
219
00:12:41,830 --> 00:12:48,802
And then this is a photo of,
he only met my oldest son,
220
00:12:49,527 --> 00:12:54,532
his first grandchild once,
and this was around Christmas
221
00:12:55,775 --> 00:12:59,709
of 1991, so right
around the time
222
00:12:59,744 --> 00:13:02,264
of this controversy at
Kirkland and he had been going
223
00:13:02,298 --> 00:13:06,337
through chemotherapy for
lymphoma, which is why
224
00:13:06,371 --> 00:13:09,478
he's totally bald, but
had been declared cured.
225
00:13:09,512 --> 00:13:12,930
So he's there with my
brother holding Daniel.
226
00:13:12,964 --> 00:13:16,243
I had friends whose parents
were more conventional
227
00:13:16,278 --> 00:13:20,800
and successful professionally
and had more money,
228
00:13:20,834 --> 00:13:25,908
so they were doctors or
professors and it was easier
229
00:13:25,943 --> 00:13:30,948
as a kid to assess what that
meant in terms of status
230
00:13:31,293 --> 00:13:34,296
than it was when I had
to say my father wrote
231
00:13:34,330 --> 00:13:37,368
these weird books, and
they all seemed odd to me.
232
00:13:37,402 --> 00:13:40,336
None of them were books I
really would have read myself.
233
00:13:40,371 --> 00:13:43,408
This photo is one that
I had for many years.
234
00:13:43,443 --> 00:13:45,307
It's from 1986.
235
00:13:45,341 --> 00:13:49,587
It's actually, he's there
the same age that I am now.
236
00:13:49,621 --> 00:13:53,039
I don't know if you see a
resemblance or not.
237
00:13:53,073 --> 00:13:55,869
So, and at the time,
again, as I said,
238
00:13:55,904 --> 00:14:00,840
at the time I was 29 and I
was pretty estranged from him.
239
00:14:01,841 --> 00:14:04,119
I was about to get
married, a year later
240
00:14:04,153 --> 00:14:08,571
I would get married, but he
had to have this photo taken
241
00:14:08,606 --> 00:14:10,815
for professional reasons,
and he's there,
242
00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:12,437
he's actually leaning
against the wall
243
00:14:12,472 --> 00:14:13,680
of the Firestone Library
244
00:14:14,750 --> 00:14:19,755
and his inscription was, "To
Peter from his distant dad,"
245
00:14:20,376 --> 00:14:24,484
which is basically his
commentary on our relationship.
246
00:14:29,730 --> 00:14:31,836
- Okay kids,
247
00:14:31,871 --> 00:14:34,735
let's quiet down now,
quiet down.
248
00:14:37,117 --> 00:14:39,095
So this is a song that I
think you've all heard before.
249
00:14:39,119 --> 00:14:40,293
It is one of my favorites,
250
00:14:40,327 --> 00:14:42,778
especially around
this time of year.
251
00:14:42,812 --> 00:14:47,783
♪ There was an old woman,
all skin and bones ♪
252
00:14:49,233 --> 00:14:51,062
♪ Ooh
253
00:14:54,963 --> 00:14:59,105
- Not bad, but let's
pay attention to the melody.
254
00:14:59,139 --> 00:15:02,211
♪ Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh
255
00:15:08,355 --> 00:15:13,326
♪ There was an old woman,
all skin and bones, ooh ♪
256
00:15:17,192 --> 00:15:22,128
♪ She lived down by the
old graveyard, ooh ♪
257
00:15:32,862 --> 00:15:35,589
- If you write scary books,
they expect you to have fangs
258
00:15:35,624 --> 00:15:39,662
or wear a cape or something,
and then I walk out.
259
00:15:39,697 --> 00:15:43,011
I'm this old guy, and it's
disappointing to them, I think.
260
00:15:43,045 --> 00:15:45,703
And I've gotten to know
a lot of horror writers
261
00:15:45,737 --> 00:15:49,086
and my experience is that
they're all pretty quiet,
262
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,365
normal people,
they just like to write,
263
00:15:52,399 --> 00:15:54,229
like to make up stories.
264
00:16:11,694 --> 00:16:14,007
- For me, the '80s and the '90s,
265
00:16:14,042 --> 00:16:17,769
that was a golden age of
children's books
266
00:16:17,804 --> 00:16:19,875
and particularly
children's horror,
267
00:16:19,909 --> 00:16:22,464
then along came Scary
Stories to Tell in the Dark
268
00:16:22,498 --> 00:16:26,295
and kids just couldn't seem to
get enough.
269
00:16:26,330 --> 00:16:28,953
Scary Stories to
Tell in the Dark,
270
00:16:28,988 --> 00:16:32,232
that's the gold standard.
271
00:16:32,267 --> 00:16:34,303
- We were even before Goosebumps
272
00:16:34,338 --> 00:16:36,236
when we started writing
the Adventures of Bailey
273
00:16:36,271 --> 00:16:39,515
School Kids' books, they
were pretty uncharted
274
00:16:39,550 --> 00:16:41,897
territory if you would,
especially for the chapter book
275
00:16:41,931 --> 00:16:43,278
level that we were writing for.
276
00:16:43,312 --> 00:16:45,383
Marcia was a teacher
and I was a librarian,
277
00:16:45,418 --> 00:16:48,628
and we felt like if anybody
is safe presenting this sort
278
00:16:48,662 --> 00:16:52,873
of material to children,
a teacher and a librarian
279
00:16:52,908 --> 00:16:57,016
would protect children from
anything that would be too scary
280
00:16:57,050 --> 00:16:59,363
or too horrifying, so they
felt pretty comfortable
281
00:16:59,397 --> 00:17:02,400
launching their first
scary chapter book series
282
00:17:02,435 --> 00:17:04,816
with a teacher and a librarian.
283
00:17:06,611 --> 00:17:08,337
- Think about the setting.
284
00:17:08,372 --> 00:17:11,202
Most kids will say
haunted house, graveyard,
285
00:17:11,237 --> 00:17:15,206
but the most scary settings
are those that are normal
286
00:17:15,241 --> 00:17:20,246
settings like a swimming
pool, an amusement park,
287
00:17:22,731 --> 00:17:25,561
something that is familiar
that somehow turns scary
288
00:17:25,596 --> 00:17:29,048
and that really gets them
thinking about setting
289
00:17:29,082 --> 00:17:33,224
and I think it really
enhances their ability
290
00:17:33,259 --> 00:17:35,088
to appreciate literature,
291
00:17:35,123 --> 00:17:37,090
and that's what it's all about.
292
00:17:58,007 --> 00:18:00,941
- People call me
Stephen King for kids
293
00:18:00,976 --> 00:18:03,392
and actually,
I'm very flattered by that.
294
00:18:03,427 --> 00:18:06,740
Last year at the Edgar
Awards in New York,
295
00:18:06,775 --> 00:18:08,397
there he was across the room,
296
00:18:08,432 --> 00:18:12,539
so this is my chance after
30 years and we went over
297
00:18:12,574 --> 00:18:16,129
and introduced ourselves
and introduced our wives
298
00:18:16,164 --> 00:18:20,168
and I said, "Steve, you
know, I was once called
299
00:18:20,202 --> 00:18:22,549
"a training bra for you."
300
00:18:22,584 --> 00:18:24,482
And he said, "Yes, I know
301
00:18:26,933 --> 00:18:29,315
Well, part of
Alvin Schwartz's brilliance
302
00:18:29,349 --> 00:18:32,904
was that he took all
these old folk legends,
303
00:18:32,939 --> 00:18:37,944
and myths, and old stories and
made them readable for kids.
304
00:18:38,358 --> 00:18:43,087
He used what the stories
were, but he was able to write
305
00:18:43,122 --> 00:18:45,779
in a way that really
related to kids,
306
00:18:45,814 --> 00:18:48,679
and I think that's his
particular genius.
307
00:18:52,027 --> 00:18:56,031
- It was October of
1994, Halloween season.
308
00:18:56,065 --> 00:19:01,070
I had made a display of all
the great Halloween stories
309
00:19:01,519 --> 00:19:02,934
for children to check out.
310
00:19:02,969 --> 00:19:04,936
The books were
flying off the shelves.
311
00:19:04,971 --> 00:19:08,871
Children love Halloween season
because of the great books.
312
00:19:09,769 --> 00:19:14,394
One day, the superintendent
of my elementary school
313
00:19:14,429 --> 00:19:18,433
arrived with Scary Stories
to Tell in the Dark
314
00:19:18,467 --> 00:19:19,467
under his arm.
315
00:19:20,538 --> 00:19:23,403
He said, "Miriam, I want
you to take this book
316
00:19:23,438 --> 00:19:24,542
"off the shelf."
317
00:19:25,819 --> 00:19:27,200
Well, I was really shocked.
318
00:19:27,235 --> 00:19:30,203
Why would you want to take
this book off the shelf?
319
00:19:30,238 --> 00:19:31,825
He said, "A mother complained."
320
00:19:31,860 --> 00:19:34,069
He said, "She thinks
this isn't appropriate
321
00:19:34,103 --> 00:19:36,416
"for elementary school kids."
322
00:19:36,451 --> 00:19:38,246
I said, "Have you read it?"
323
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,351
He said, "No, I didn't read it."
324
00:19:40,386 --> 00:19:44,044
He said, "You got 10,000
books in this library.
325
00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:45,701
"Just do this with me."
326
00:19:45,736 --> 00:19:48,877
And I said, "Well, I don't
think I'm gonna do that.
327
00:19:48,911 --> 00:19:52,052
"What I'm gonna do is this,
I'm gonna check the book out
328
00:19:52,087 --> 00:19:56,471
"to you and I am
going to read it myself.
329
00:19:56,505 --> 00:19:59,888
"We'll just give ourselves
a little time to read it."
330
00:19:59,922 --> 00:20:02,546
I thought well, what this
was doing was giving me time
331
00:20:02,580 --> 00:20:04,444
to check up on what
I needed to do
332
00:20:04,479 --> 00:20:06,791
because this was the
first real incident
333
00:20:06,826 --> 00:20:10,070
that I had ever had as a
librarian
334
00:20:10,105 --> 00:20:14,109
that might end up at
the school board.
335
00:20:20,219 --> 00:20:22,876
- I haven't really looked
at these books since then.
336
00:20:22,911 --> 00:20:27,916
Just looking back at these
pictures makes me remember
337
00:20:28,365 --> 00:20:31,437
why I think they're
just so creepy.
338
00:20:31,471 --> 00:20:33,956
Yeah, I mean, , this story,
Harold,
339
00:20:33,991 --> 00:20:36,269
I remember that one.
340
00:20:37,719 --> 00:20:39,824
The illustrations are
probably, like I said,
341
00:20:39,859 --> 00:20:41,585
the most frightening
part of these.
342
00:20:42,482 --> 00:20:45,416
Uh, yeah.
343
00:20:45,451 --> 00:20:49,869
- Alvin always had the final
say with his publishers
344
00:20:49,903 --> 00:20:53,321
as to who would illustrate
any book he wrote,
345
00:20:53,355 --> 00:20:56,669
so he was presented
by his publisher
346
00:20:56,703 --> 00:20:59,361
with some work that
Stephen Gammell had done
347
00:20:59,396 --> 00:21:01,156
and he really was very
impressed with that
348
00:21:01,190 --> 00:21:04,435
and he wanted Stephen
Gammell to illustrate
349
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:09,475
his Scary Stories books and
a really, really big part
350
00:21:10,545 --> 00:21:14,100
of the success of those
books were the illustrations.
351
00:21:14,134 --> 00:21:15,722
- This is a series of
books that opens
352
00:21:15,757 --> 00:21:17,828
with an image of a
severed head hanging
353
00:21:17,862 --> 00:21:20,244
off of a clothesline and
all of this stark black
354
00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:24,144
and white Halloween-ish, clouds
on a gray October day vibe
355
00:21:24,179 --> 00:21:25,422
that really stuck in your head.
356
00:21:25,456 --> 00:21:26,882
Everybody remembers the
illustrations
357
00:21:26,906 --> 00:21:29,391
just as well as they
remember the stories.
358
00:21:29,426 --> 00:21:31,911
- From a story, I think,
called the Haunted House,
359
00:21:31,945 --> 00:21:36,156
which has a
woman with eye sockets.
360
00:21:36,191 --> 00:21:38,469
- She's missing her eyes,
you just see these deep,
361
00:21:38,504 --> 00:21:41,161
gaping eye sockets, her
teeth all are all rotted
362
00:21:41,196 --> 00:21:44,475
her hair is stringy and
wet and disgusting looking.
363
00:21:44,510 --> 00:21:46,512
- And she's looking
straight at you
364
00:21:46,546 --> 00:21:51,517
and making it so difficult
to read the words
365
00:21:51,551 --> 00:21:53,104
on the other page.
366
00:21:53,139 --> 00:21:55,279
Finally, to get
through that story,
367
00:21:55,314 --> 00:21:57,971
I had to actually put
another book over the picture
368
00:21:58,006 --> 00:22:01,181
so that I could read the
page and finally finish
369
00:22:01,216 --> 00:22:03,114
the story and I found
it to be very,
370
00:22:03,149 --> 00:22:06,739
both beautiful and sad
at the same time.
371
00:22:07,705 --> 00:22:09,604
I've heard it referred
to as the picture
372
00:22:09,638 --> 00:22:12,641
that shat 1,000 pants
373
00:22:13,262 --> 00:22:17,991
- It's this very strange,
pale, bloated figure
374
00:22:18,026 --> 00:22:23,031
with this wide, eerie
smile and beady eyes
375
00:22:23,376 --> 00:22:25,620
and creepy hair and it's
just looking right at you,
376
00:22:25,654 --> 00:22:29,486
and even as an adult, I can't
look at that one for too long.
377
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,385
I'm a little afraid it's going
to move.
378
00:22:32,420 --> 00:22:34,525
- You see the pictures
at the top of the story,
379
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,400
so before you even read
it, it's setting you up
380
00:22:36,424 --> 00:22:40,531
and it's a woman in a
bridle gown curled up
381
00:22:40,566 --> 00:22:43,051
and she has this horrible
expression on her face.
382
00:22:43,085 --> 00:22:44,580
She's like, a skeleton
and her mouth's open
383
00:22:44,604 --> 00:22:46,503
and her eyes are gone.
384
00:22:46,537 --> 00:22:47,928
I think part of it is yes,
a fear of small spaces,
385
00:22:47,952 --> 00:22:52,025
but it's also just that
expression on her face
386
00:22:52,060 --> 00:22:54,856
or what's left of her
face grabs you.
387
00:22:54,890 --> 00:22:56,823
- The illustration that
stands out the most
388
00:22:56,858 --> 00:22:58,825
to me is The Thing.
389
00:22:58,860 --> 00:23:03,002
You see in this shriveled,
zombie-like face,
390
00:23:03,036 --> 00:23:06,005
you see the eyes very clearly
and they're just staring
391
00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:08,076
right at you.
- Stephen Gammell's
392
00:23:08,110 --> 00:23:10,768
illustrations frequently
look directly at the reader,
393
00:23:10,803 --> 00:23:13,150
meeting them eye-to-eye.
394
00:23:13,184 --> 00:23:15,946
That breaking of the fourth
wall is fun in itself,
395
00:23:18,017 --> 00:23:21,261
but one of the things that
makes that extra effective
396
00:23:21,296 --> 00:23:23,274
in horror is because there's
this longstanding idea
397
00:23:23,298 --> 00:23:27,095
in horror that if you can't
see it, it can't see you.
398
00:23:27,129 --> 00:23:28,728
It's the reason why children
pull blankets
399
00:23:28,752 --> 00:23:30,719
over their heads.
400
00:23:30,754 --> 00:23:32,341
When these horrors
are looking at you,
401
00:23:32,376 --> 00:23:34,827
they can see you and they
know that you can see them,
402
00:23:34,861 --> 00:23:37,416
so it makes them more likely
to come out of the book
403
00:23:37,450 --> 00:23:39,048
and get you, or at least
makes it more likely to feel
404
00:23:39,072 --> 00:23:40,867
like they're going to,
which is important
405
00:23:40,902 --> 00:23:42,628
when it comes to horror.
406
00:23:42,662 --> 00:23:44,595
When the books came
out in the 1980s,
407
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:46,563
they were illustrated
by Stephen Gammell.
408
00:23:46,597 --> 00:23:48,772
If you go on the internet,
you will find tons of people
409
00:23:48,806 --> 00:23:51,671
posting their favorite scary
pictures from the books
410
00:23:51,706 --> 00:23:52,821
to try to terrify more people.
411
00:23:52,845 --> 00:23:55,364
However, a few years
back when they did a big
412
00:23:55,399 --> 00:23:58,506
anniversary release,
they have new art.
413
00:23:58,540 --> 00:24:00,369
All over the internet people
were talking
414
00:24:00,404 --> 00:24:03,580
about this new release
ruining their childhood,
415
00:24:03,614 --> 00:24:05,616
so the stories weren't the
same without the artwork
416
00:24:05,651 --> 00:24:09,482
and these new pieces of art,
which are very attractive
417
00:24:09,517 --> 00:24:11,149
pieces of art just wouldn't
give them the nightmares
418
00:24:11,173 --> 00:24:13,521
that they expected from
a Scary Stories book.
419
00:24:13,555 --> 00:24:16,731
There was initially a run
on the now out of print,
420
00:24:16,765 --> 00:24:18,629
original illustrations copies
421
00:24:18,664 --> 00:24:20,424
that lead to Amazon
Marketplace prices
422
00:24:20,459 --> 00:24:24,117
of hundreds of
dollars for one paperback,
423
00:24:24,152 --> 00:24:25,981
beaten up old book.
424
00:24:27,258 --> 00:24:30,572
- It gave me that
early sense of the power
425
00:24:30,607 --> 00:24:31,815
an image could have.
426
00:24:31,849 --> 00:24:33,782
I've talked to a lot
of other illustrators,
427
00:24:33,817 --> 00:24:36,302
particularly comic artists
who've said similar things,
428
00:24:36,336 --> 00:24:38,338
that they really have strong,
429
00:24:38,373 --> 00:24:40,893
vivid memories of
seeing these images
430
00:24:40,927 --> 00:24:43,827
and these illustrations
and they have left
431
00:24:43,861 --> 00:24:45,207
some mark on them.
432
00:24:45,242 --> 00:24:48,521
- It started out as just
going to be a simple display.
433
00:24:48,556 --> 00:24:50,627
Thinking about the second book,
434
00:24:50,661 --> 00:24:53,492
it started becoming
larger and larger.
435
00:25:04,054 --> 00:25:06,332
I created the
tribute to the books
436
00:25:06,366 --> 00:25:10,267
simply because it was a
major part of my childhood.
437
00:25:10,301 --> 00:25:12,476
It was something that
I'd always wanted to see
438
00:25:12,511 --> 00:25:15,341
in three-dimensional form.
439
00:25:15,375 --> 00:25:17,101
A lot of natural
elements went into it
440
00:25:17,136 --> 00:25:21,071
just to make it as realistic
as I possibly could,
441
00:25:21,105 --> 00:25:24,315
but stay true to the
actual books.
442
00:25:24,350 --> 00:25:27,595
He could just transform
into these incredible
443
00:25:27,629 --> 00:25:31,875
atmospheres with
just a simple pen stroke.
444
00:25:46,303 --> 00:25:48,788
- Actually adapting the
illustrations into photos
445
00:25:48,823 --> 00:25:53,931
is bizarre and kind of hilarious
446
00:25:53,966 --> 00:25:56,002
because obviously I don't
447
00:25:56,037 --> 00:25:59,868
have a skeleton-like
bride to photograph.
448
00:25:59,903 --> 00:26:02,388
I knew I wanted to
start with people.
449
00:26:02,422 --> 00:26:05,184
I thought it would
be more realistic
450
00:26:05,218 --> 00:26:08,497
and a better adaption
to start with people
451
00:26:08,532 --> 00:26:10,707
and try to get them to end up
452
00:26:10,741 --> 00:26:13,192
looking like the illustrations.
453
00:26:22,788 --> 00:26:25,860
- And to create the
Scary Stories sculpture
454
00:26:25,894 --> 00:26:28,517
I've been working on,
I've been using oil clay.
455
00:26:28,552 --> 00:26:30,796
It allows you to take a
lot more time to do it,
456
00:26:30,830 --> 00:26:33,868
really wanted to explore
this medium a little more
457
00:26:33,902 --> 00:26:35,628
'cause this is what
they make the monsters
458
00:26:35,663 --> 00:26:37,975
out of in the movies.
459
00:26:38,010 --> 00:26:41,047
I decided to sculpt the
cover of the third book
460
00:26:41,082 --> 00:26:42,393
in the series.
461
00:26:42,428 --> 00:26:44,406
They were their own entity
floating in space like that
462
00:26:44,430 --> 00:26:48,123
and at the same time,
they were so versatile
463
00:26:48,158 --> 00:26:52,127
in their textures in their
completion.
464
00:26:52,162 --> 00:26:55,855
- All these shingles are hand
cut and hand glued in place.
465
00:26:55,890 --> 00:27:00,722
The trees were built from
tree roots and just branches
466
00:27:00,757 --> 00:27:04,726
that were painted and
covered in black hot glue
467
00:27:04,761 --> 00:27:06,763
to create the nice
sort of tendrils
468
00:27:06,797 --> 00:27:09,697
that Gammell likes
to give to everything.
469
00:27:11,146 --> 00:27:12,769
- I pretty much immediately
realized
470
00:27:12,803 --> 00:27:14,263
that it was gonna be
much more challenging
471
00:27:14,287 --> 00:27:16,289
than I initially thought.
472
00:27:16,324 --> 00:27:17,922
It's difficult, especially
when you're going
473
00:27:17,946 --> 00:27:20,190
off of something so
iconic and direct
474
00:27:20,224 --> 00:27:23,676
like the images in the book.
475
00:27:23,711 --> 00:27:25,689
There's a lot left to the
imagination and there's a lot
476
00:27:25,713 --> 00:27:29,199
to interpret there and I
learned a lot about his process
477
00:27:29,233 --> 00:27:32,271
and his thinking to
line up this one,
478
00:27:32,305 --> 00:27:35,446
two-dimensional image,
you have to step back
479
00:27:35,481 --> 00:27:37,586
and look at it,
and on the sketch
480
00:27:37,621 --> 00:27:40,900
you see a mound
over here on this guy
481
00:27:40,935 --> 00:27:43,800
and it's like, how am I gonna
482
00:27:43,834 --> 00:27:45,836
make that happen?
- Blending the actual
483
00:27:45,871 --> 00:27:47,907
head into the ground,
484
00:27:47,942 --> 00:27:50,151
that was probably
the most difficult part
485
00:27:50,185 --> 00:27:51,739
because the way it
looks in the book,
486
00:27:51,773 --> 00:27:53,361
it looks a little bit different
487
00:27:53,395 --> 00:27:55,225
than what I could actually do.
488
00:27:55,259 --> 00:27:56,892
To me, what it always looked
like and what I always
489
00:27:56,916 --> 00:27:58,918
thought it was was the
head was actually growing
490
00:27:58,953 --> 00:28:00,817
out of the ground.
491
00:28:00,851 --> 00:28:03,060
It was like a piece
of the ground
492
00:28:03,095 --> 00:28:05,822
that was literally
growing next to the barn.
493
00:28:08,859 --> 00:28:11,379
- I had been doing wedding
photography
494
00:28:11,413 --> 00:28:14,762
and portrait photography
for so long,
495
00:28:14,796 --> 00:28:17,972
for almost 10 years.
496
00:28:18,006 --> 00:28:20,733
You get really tired doing
the same repetitive shot
497
00:28:20,768 --> 00:28:24,806
in the same happy setting
with the same sun flare
498
00:28:24,841 --> 00:28:28,292
and I love doing the colorful
work,
499
00:28:28,327 --> 00:28:30,398
but I knew it wasn't
what was true to my heart
500
00:28:30,432 --> 00:28:34,851
and I was really longing
to just do something
501
00:28:34,885 --> 00:28:38,302
so opposite, so drained of color
502
00:28:38,337 --> 00:28:41,305
and just kind of shocking,
but still really true
503
00:28:41,340 --> 00:28:42,582
to who I am.
504
00:28:42,617 --> 00:28:45,309
I always had those stories
in the back of my mind
505
00:28:45,344 --> 00:28:50,211
and I finally just
decided I have to choose
506
00:28:50,245 --> 00:28:54,284
these really small windows in
my time to just finally do it
507
00:28:54,318 --> 00:28:56,217
and it was close to
Halloween and I thought
508
00:28:56,251 --> 00:28:58,564
it was a perfect time to devote
509
00:28:58,598 --> 00:28:59,634
the time to doing it.
510
00:29:09,817 --> 00:29:14,822
I have a really strong
attachment to the books
511
00:29:15,823 --> 00:29:18,239
I read when I was a kid.
512
00:29:18,273 --> 00:29:21,794
I was convinced that I was
illiterate.
513
00:29:21,829 --> 00:29:24,590
My teachers made me
feel awful for the fact
514
00:29:24,624 --> 00:29:27,731
that the books they assigned
us, I never finished
515
00:29:27,766 --> 00:29:32,701
and I remember we had a
reading chart in our classroom
516
00:29:32,736 --> 00:29:34,807
where when you finished a
book, you got a gold star
517
00:29:34,842 --> 00:29:36,854
on your name and I got really
insecure that all the other
518
00:29:36,878 --> 00:29:39,225
kids had so many gold stars.
519
00:29:39,260 --> 00:29:42,228
Here I was with like,
three measly gold starts
520
00:29:42,263 --> 00:29:45,749
which I'm pretty sure I lied
about reading those books
521
00:29:45,784 --> 00:29:48,614
to get those gold stars
'cause I felt so insecure.
522
00:29:48,648 --> 00:29:52,549
So it was the first book
that I felt like,
523
00:29:52,583 --> 00:29:54,931
not only am I so into this
book, but I'm gonna finish
524
00:29:54,965 --> 00:29:57,968
this book and I'm gonna get
that gold star.
525
00:29:58,003 --> 00:30:02,593
- As a kid, your imagination
is all you have to get by.
526
00:30:02,628 --> 00:30:06,908
It's like, as a young
artist, it was validation
527
00:30:06,943 --> 00:30:10,532
to keep exploring this
type of, that this avenue
528
00:30:10,567 --> 00:30:13,052
was okay to pursue.
529
00:30:13,087 --> 00:30:16,815
- I feel like their mind
and I see someone else
530
00:30:16,849 --> 00:30:20,749
doing an ode to them, I'm
like oh, but it's my thing,
531
00:30:20,784 --> 00:30:24,374
it was my childhood!
- Imagining his incredible
532
00:30:24,408 --> 00:30:27,135
artwork, that was probably the
pinnacle
533
00:30:27,170 --> 00:30:32,175
of the toughest task I had
ever, ever tried to create.
534
00:30:32,831 --> 00:30:36,938
I mean, you can't get
close to what he presented.
535
00:30:36,973 --> 00:30:41,840
That's his work, that
is his absolute work,
536
00:30:41,874 --> 00:30:44,670
that's his style,
that's what he created
537
00:30:44,704 --> 00:30:47,017
and trying to go off of that,
538
00:30:47,052 --> 00:30:48,743
it was just damn near
impossible.
539
00:30:57,994 --> 00:31:02,101
- Even Gammell remains a
figure of much interest
540
00:31:02,136 --> 00:31:03,931
and mystery to everyone.
541
00:31:03,965 --> 00:31:06,140
He's a very private person,
542
00:31:06,174 --> 00:31:09,039
and so there are really
no extant interviews
543
00:31:09,074 --> 00:31:10,489
available with him.
544
00:31:10,523 --> 00:31:15,528
He doesn't give interviews,
but we do have an interview
545
00:31:15,874 --> 00:31:17,772
he did do many, many years ago.
546
00:31:17,806 --> 00:31:20,361
He tells you not
everything about him,
547
00:31:20,395 --> 00:31:21,914
but it gives you
a bit of a window
548
00:31:21,949 --> 00:31:23,778
into who Stephen Gammell is.
549
00:31:24,675 --> 00:31:26,919
The first time I read a
manuscript, I can immediately
tell
550
00:31:26,954 --> 00:31:28,990
whether I want to illustrate it.
551
00:31:29,025 --> 00:31:31,855
I may not know how the
illustrations will look,
552
00:31:31,890 --> 00:31:34,513
but I get a certain
feeling from the text.
553
00:31:34,547 --> 00:31:38,172
I respond to the words, and
if I respond to a story,
554
00:31:38,206 --> 00:31:39,449
I can illustrate it.
555
00:31:39,483 --> 00:31:42,107
My first concern is to
serve the story.
556
00:31:42,141 --> 00:31:44,316
That is an illustrator's job.
557
00:31:44,350 --> 00:31:47,422
I don't research unless I
have to because I prefer
558
00:31:47,457 --> 00:31:49,493
to draw from my imagination.
559
00:31:49,528 --> 00:31:52,531
Whatever I draw, whether
it's a buffalo or a chair,
560
00:31:52,565 --> 00:31:55,810
I try to make it my own to
satisfy myself.
561
00:31:57,398 --> 00:32:01,712
I prefer to work alone, without
feedback from the author.
562
00:32:01,747 --> 00:32:03,714
I believe that once a
manuscript is written
563
00:32:03,749 --> 00:32:06,234
and accepted,
the writer's work is over.
564
00:32:06,269 --> 00:32:08,650
Unless you collaborate on
a book from its inception,
565
00:32:08,685 --> 00:32:10,859
talking with authors
can create problems
566
00:32:10,894 --> 00:32:13,932
over artistic interpretation.
567
00:32:13,966 --> 00:32:15,979
When I illustrate a story,
I want to work with my ideas
568
00:32:16,003 --> 00:32:20,041
and my perception of the
words, not with the author.
569
00:32:20,076 --> 00:32:22,526
While I had no notion
of what an artist was,
570
00:32:22,561 --> 00:32:24,908
I did have an awareness of
illustration
571
00:32:24,943 --> 00:32:27,152
from an early age.
572
00:32:27,186 --> 00:32:29,775
I used to lie on my stomach
on the floor of the solarium
573
00:32:29,809 --> 00:32:34,159
and draw soldiers, airplanes,
trains, and semaphores
574
00:32:34,193 --> 00:32:37,886
as well as the usual
cowboys and Indians.
575
00:32:37,921 --> 00:32:39,657
As years go by, you
retain what is interesting
576
00:32:39,681 --> 00:32:42,961
from childhood and
toss out the rest.
577
00:32:42,995 --> 00:32:45,998
I tried to get through high
school by drawing, too.
578
00:32:46,033 --> 00:32:48,138
I'd turn in book reports
with illustrations,
579
00:32:48,173 --> 00:32:50,347
thinking the teachers
would be impressed,
580
00:32:50,382 --> 00:32:51,900
but of course they weren't.
581
00:33:08,089 --> 00:33:09,411
- I know they're on
the banned book list,
582
00:33:09,435 --> 00:33:12,473
so we weren't really even
allowed to necessarily have them
583
00:33:12,507 --> 00:33:17,409
when we were in school, and
then we just kind of would sneak
584
00:33:17,443 --> 00:33:18,893
'em into school.
585
00:33:20,343 --> 00:33:24,209
We'd limit TV, I'd read
to my son every night.
586
00:33:24,243 --> 00:33:26,211
It's incredibly important,
just so they build
587
00:33:26,245 --> 00:33:31,009
that imagination and learn
how to make landscapes
588
00:33:31,043 --> 00:33:33,666
in their head and it
makes them more creative
589
00:33:33,701 --> 00:33:35,358
in my opinion.
590
00:33:35,392 --> 00:33:38,257
I don't really see a kid
going out and scooping
591
00:33:38,292 --> 00:33:39,948
somebody's brains out, you know?
592
00:33:39,983 --> 00:33:45,057
It's just folklore, it's
fun, and if a kid can build
593
00:33:45,092 --> 00:33:49,406
his imagination by reading
versus playing
594
00:33:49,441 --> 00:33:52,271
a video game or watching
TV, then I'm all for it.
595
00:34:07,735 --> 00:34:10,255
I actually came to Sam with
the idea for this entire sleeve
596
00:34:10,289 --> 00:34:14,155
at once and I put down,
I paid for it in full
597
00:34:14,190 --> 00:34:17,262
and I p.m. said this
is the idea I have.
598
00:34:17,296 --> 00:34:19,402
There were certain
illustrations that I definitely,
599
00:34:19,436 --> 00:34:20,965
definitely wanted and
then then other ones
600
00:34:20,989 --> 00:34:22,381
were kind of just like
hey, let's see what fits
601
00:34:22,405 --> 00:34:23,406
and looks cool.
602
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,098
I think my favorite Scary
Stories tattoo
603
00:34:26,133 --> 00:34:31,103
is probably the church,
just because it is like,
604
00:34:31,862 --> 00:34:36,281
so detailed, just down
to each shutter
605
00:34:36,315 --> 00:34:37,868
and down to the cross on top.
606
00:34:37,903 --> 00:34:39,594
It's probably my favorite.
607
00:34:39,629 --> 00:34:41,803
That's the one that I get
the most compliments on
608
00:34:41,838 --> 00:34:44,254
of all pieces that
are excellent on here,
609
00:34:44,289 --> 00:34:47,878
that is the one that stands
out the most to people.
610
00:34:47,913 --> 00:34:49,373
It kinda hits a soft spot in
most people
611
00:34:49,397 --> 00:34:51,710
because they're really
excited about the books
612
00:34:51,744 --> 00:34:53,194
just like I was.
613
00:34:53,229 --> 00:34:58,234
- This artist in particular,
he wears a very unique hat
614
00:34:58,889 --> 00:35:03,894
so to speak and asa I've been
an artist my entire life,
615
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:09,245
so for me to try to put
myself aside and literally
616
00:35:12,282 --> 00:35:17,115
mimic this artist's work,
it's difficult.
617
00:35:17,149 --> 00:35:20,773
It mirrors a lot of my style.
618
00:35:20,808 --> 00:35:22,741
I like the macabre,
I like the dark.
619
00:35:22,775 --> 00:35:24,432
I think it's interesting.
620
00:35:25,916 --> 00:35:29,368
Beyond that, it's just fun.
621
00:35:33,303 --> 00:35:37,618
- He was very, very
dark, but that darkness,
622
00:35:37,652 --> 00:35:39,827
you sit there and
you look at the images
623
00:35:39,861 --> 00:35:42,209
and you can keep finding
things, and finding things,
624
00:35:42,243 --> 00:35:45,557
and finding things
that's in one image.
625
00:35:45,591 --> 00:35:48,698
The more you look at it, the
more things that you find.
626
00:35:51,010 --> 00:35:52,598
I have a two-year-old right now
627
00:35:52,633 --> 00:35:56,740
and I think I would definitely
let him read these books
628
00:35:56,775 --> 00:35:57,845
when he's ready.
629
00:35:57,879 --> 00:36:00,192
They almost teach you
a little bit about how
630
00:36:00,227 --> 00:36:05,266
to be more expressive
and just put more details
631
00:36:05,301 --> 00:36:07,268
into everyday life and I think
632
00:36:07,303 --> 00:36:10,582
it would be a really,
really good thing for him.
633
00:36:10,616 --> 00:36:13,309
So, if he has nightmares,
I'm there to comfort him.
634
00:36:13,343 --> 00:36:16,864
If he has questions about
things, I'm there to answer
635
00:36:16,898 --> 00:36:17,899
them for him.
636
00:36:17,934 --> 00:36:19,498
I'm not gonna shelter
him from scary things
637
00:36:19,522 --> 00:36:22,076
just because I don't
feel like he's ready.
638
00:36:22,110 --> 00:36:24,078
So when he's ready, he's ready
639
00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:42,648
- The
superintendent walked back in
640
00:36:42,683 --> 00:36:45,306
and this time he said,
"Miriam, let's go back
641
00:36:45,341 --> 00:36:48,654
"to your office in the
back of the library,"
642
00:36:48,689 --> 00:36:50,346
and I thought this is
not going well.
643
00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:55,074
So we went back and he
sat down at the desk,
644
00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:57,042
leaving me to stand.
645
00:36:57,076 --> 00:36:59,803
And he said, "Miriam,
I'm going to ask you
646
00:36:59,838 --> 00:37:02,185
"to remove this book from the
library."
647
00:37:04,083 --> 00:37:07,570
And I said, "I don't
think I can do that.
648
00:37:08,847 --> 00:37:10,020
"Did you read it?"
649
00:37:10,952 --> 00:37:13,541
"No, I didn't get a chance."
650
00:37:13,576 --> 00:37:17,235
He said, "you have thousands
of books in this library.
651
00:37:17,269 --> 00:37:22,240
"Why would you stake your
career on one scary book?"
652
00:37:27,037 --> 00:37:30,351
And I said, "For every
story, it has the region
653
00:37:30,386 --> 00:37:33,320
"of the country that it came
from, it has the tradition
654
00:37:33,354 --> 00:37:38,359
"of it, I don't have anything
else in the library like this.
655
00:37:38,566 --> 00:37:41,949
"I think that I can
defend this book."
656
00:37:44,814 --> 00:37:46,885
"Well," he said, "I'm gonna
have to get back to you.
657
00:37:46,919 --> 00:37:48,749
"I'm gonna have to talk
to the school board.
658
00:37:48,783 --> 00:37:50,268
"The school board
meets in two weeks,
659
00:37:50,302 --> 00:37:53,029
"probably this'll have to
be part of the meeting."
660
00:38:17,260 --> 00:38:20,159
- Hey, do you guys want
to hear a scary story?
661
00:38:20,194 --> 00:38:22,127
- Yeah!
- Yeah, so.
662
00:38:25,337 --> 00:38:29,790
- Okay, so one night as
this young girl was sleeping
663
00:38:29,824 --> 00:38:34,933
in her bed, a spider crawled
across her face and it stopped
664
00:38:34,967 --> 00:38:37,763
in her left cheek just
for a few minutes
665
00:38:37,798 --> 00:38:40,421
and then it went off on its way.
666
00:38:40,456 --> 00:38:42,458
Now the next morning,
the girl woke up
667
00:38:42,492 --> 00:38:45,012
and she looked in the
mirror and she noticed
668
00:38:45,046 --> 00:38:49,844
a little tiny red spot on her
cheek, so she went to her mom.
669
00:38:49,879 --> 00:38:51,984
She was like, "Look at
this, what is this?"
670
00:38:52,019 --> 00:38:54,677
And her mom said, "Oh, it
looks like a spider bite.
671
00:38:54,711 --> 00:38:57,231
"It'll be fine, just don't
scratch it."
672
00:38:57,265 --> 00:39:02,236
But soon, the red spot
turned into a big gross boil.
673
00:39:03,444 --> 00:39:04,894
- Uh!
- And the little girl
674
00:39:04,928 --> 00:39:07,483
went to her mom and she was
like, "Mom, look at it now!"
675
00:39:07,517 --> 00:39:11,590
And her mom went, "Oh yeah,
that'll sometimes happen.
676
00:39:11,625 --> 00:39:14,628
"It's coming to a head,
you know, like a pimple?"
677
00:39:14,662 --> 00:39:19,115
But soon, the boil got even
bigger and she went to her mom
678
00:39:19,149 --> 00:39:22,912
and she said, "Look at it now,
it hurts and it's making me
679
00:39:22,946 --> 00:39:24,051
"look so ugly!"
680
00:39:24,085 --> 00:39:27,261
And her mom was like,
"Okay, we'll have the doctor
681
00:39:27,295 --> 00:39:28,952
"look at it, maybe it's
infected."
682
00:39:28,987 --> 00:39:32,024
But then the doctor couldn't
see her till the next day,
683
00:39:32,059 --> 00:39:34,820
so to calm down, the
girl decided that night
684
00:39:34,855 --> 00:39:38,514
that she would take a nice,
soothing bath.
685
00:39:38,548 --> 00:39:41,517
So that night as she lay
floating there
686
00:39:41,551 --> 00:39:45,244
in the warm water, the boil
suddenly burst
687
00:39:45,279 --> 00:39:50,284
and out swarmed a whole
bunch of little tiny spiders
688
00:39:51,458 --> 00:39:54,426
from the eggs that had
been laid in her cheek
689
00:39:54,461 --> 00:39:55,669
the night before."
690
00:40:02,538 --> 00:40:05,472
- The Red Spot is a story
about a young girl named Ruth
691
00:40:06,369 --> 00:40:10,649
who discovers, she thinks
is a pimple on her face.
692
00:40:10,684 --> 00:40:12,410
A lot of that story
has to do with the fact
693
00:40:12,444 --> 00:40:15,654
that we're often afraid
of what our body is doing,
694
00:40:15,689 --> 00:40:17,794
the changes our body is
undergoing
695
00:40:17,829 --> 00:40:19,807
and that's something that
I think kids can appreciate
696
00:40:19,831 --> 00:40:22,972
and even teenagers 'cause
when you're in elementary
697
00:40:23,006 --> 00:40:25,250
school, in middle school and
high school,
698
00:40:25,284 --> 00:40:27,770
your body is constantly
changing and evolving
699
00:40:27,804 --> 00:40:31,877
and your arms are too big,
your legs are too long,
700
00:40:31,912 --> 00:40:33,085
your head's too big.
701
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,363
You're always growing and
changing and it's something
702
00:40:35,398 --> 00:40:37,642
that you can't control, you
have no control over that
703
00:40:37,676 --> 00:40:39,747
and a lot of times,
that can be scary.
704
00:40:39,782 --> 00:40:42,543
- Breaching the integrity
of your own skin
705
00:40:42,578 --> 00:40:47,583
and then having
babies come out of it,
706
00:40:48,929 --> 00:40:50,596
the mom doesn't recognize
it for what it is,
707
00:40:50,620 --> 00:40:54,072
it grows like a pregnant
belly and then you have
708
00:40:54,106 --> 00:40:55,453
a lot of babies.
709
00:40:57,558 --> 00:41:00,872
It's an obviously flawed
understanding
710
00:41:00,906 --> 00:41:04,082
of how babies come out of moms.
711
00:41:04,116 --> 00:41:08,707
That is a horror,
that's a place of horror
712
00:41:08,742 --> 00:41:11,848
when a body morphs, it's
a mythic understanding
713
00:41:11,883 --> 00:41:14,437
of how babies come out.
714
00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:16,991
It actually is mythic,
it goes back to Zeus
715
00:41:17,026 --> 00:41:20,236
who has a splitting headache,
cracks himself on the head
716
00:41:20,270 --> 00:41:21,972
and Athena springs full
blown from his head.
717
00:41:21,996 --> 00:41:24,343
These stories circulate
because they have
718
00:41:24,378 --> 00:41:25,966
these existential ties.
719
00:41:27,036 --> 00:41:29,487
- Donald and Sarah went to the
movies
720
00:41:29,521 --> 00:41:31,558
and then after the movies,
they went for a ride
721
00:41:31,592 --> 00:41:35,631
in Donald's car, so they
parked up on this cliff
722
00:41:35,665 --> 00:41:37,495
where they could see
all up and down
723
00:41:37,529 --> 00:41:38,737
the lights of the valley.
724
00:41:38,772 --> 00:41:40,739
It was beautiful and just
as they were grooving
725
00:41:40,774 --> 00:41:43,811
to the tunes,
a news bulletin broke in.
726
00:41:43,846 --> 00:41:47,366
A murderer had escaped
from the state prison
727
00:41:47,401 --> 00:41:52,164
and he was heading south
on foot armed with a knife.
728
00:41:52,199 --> 00:41:55,547
Now the murderer was
missing his left hand
729
00:41:55,582 --> 00:41:58,516
and in its place was a hook.
730
00:41:58,550 --> 00:42:01,380
- The Hook is definitely a
parable for what can happen
731
00:42:01,415 --> 00:42:02,727
when a boy and a girl
732
00:42:02,761 --> 00:42:04,556
are left together unchaperoned,
733
00:42:04,591 --> 00:42:06,765
whether it is something adult
that happens
734
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,596
like premarital sex or
whether it's just simply
735
00:42:09,630 --> 00:42:11,080
the idea of it.
736
00:42:11,114 --> 00:42:13,127
No, it's not proper, you
shouldn't be doing that yet.
737
00:42:13,151 --> 00:42:15,878
Similar to the other
stories about the wreck,
738
00:42:15,912 --> 00:42:17,303
there definitely seems
to be a warning
739
00:42:17,327 --> 00:42:19,985
against teenagers
in cars together.
740
00:42:20,020 --> 00:42:22,367
- The moral that
that story tells
741
00:42:22,401 --> 00:42:24,852
is don't go to lover's lane,
742
00:42:24,887 --> 00:42:29,892
don't experiment with
sexuality while you're young
743
00:42:30,168 --> 00:42:31,790
and while
you have to be doing it
744
00:42:31,825 --> 00:42:34,862
in a secluded, isolated area.
745
00:42:34,897 --> 00:42:36,623
- It was nine o'clock
in the evening
746
00:42:36,657 --> 00:42:38,797
and everybody was sitting
on the couch watching TV
747
00:42:38,832 --> 00:42:43,837
it was Richard, Brian,
and Jenny, and Doreen,
748
00:42:44,665 --> 00:42:46,564
the babysitter, they were all
hanging out
749
00:42:46,598 --> 00:42:48,635
and then the telephone rang.
750
00:42:48,669 --> 00:42:51,085
- And he says,
"I'm very close to you,"
751
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,329
and she hangs up and
about two seconds later,
752
00:42:53,363 --> 00:42:54,848
the operator calls
back and says,
753
00:42:54,882 --> 00:42:55,676
"Get out of the house.
754
00:42:55,711 --> 00:42:57,091
"He's in there with you."
755
00:42:57,126 --> 00:42:59,231
And I remember that was the
gotcha moment
756
00:42:59,266 --> 00:43:01,855
at the end of the story and
even just thinking about it
757
00:43:01,889 --> 00:43:03,650
brings up goosebumps
'cause I think
758
00:43:03,684 --> 00:43:06,066
that's everybody's nightmare,
is the idea of having
759
00:43:06,100 --> 00:43:08,931
a crazy person in
the house with you
760
00:43:08,965 --> 00:43:09,932
while you're looking after
little kids
761
00:43:09,966 --> 00:43:11,312
and you're by yourself.
762
00:43:11,347 --> 00:43:15,385
- When you're a child,
domestic spaces are stable,
763
00:43:15,420 --> 00:43:17,456
and they're familiar,
and they're comfortable
764
00:43:17,491 --> 00:43:19,158
because you're in the
house with your parents,
765
00:43:19,182 --> 00:43:22,427
all your things are there,
it's where you have dinner,
766
00:43:22,461 --> 00:43:25,326
it's where you play, and so
it becomes a safe environment
767
00:43:25,361 --> 00:43:29,986
and in a lot of gothic stories,
that environment is often
768
00:43:30,021 --> 00:43:33,300
invaded by terror and anxiety.
769
00:43:33,334 --> 00:43:35,992
We can see it in the
story The Voice,
770
00:43:36,027 --> 00:43:39,686
we can see it in the
story Oh, Susanna
771
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:42,654
where we think
everything is safe.
772
00:43:42,689 --> 00:43:44,321
Suddenly, our world
is flipped upside down
773
00:43:44,345 --> 00:43:48,142
and a murderer could come
in and chop your head off
774
00:43:48,177 --> 00:43:50,110
or in the story The Babysitter,
775
00:43:50,144 --> 00:43:53,423
there's a guy upstairs on
the phone calling down.
776
00:43:53,458 --> 00:43:55,633
And so there's a sense
here that you're never
777
00:43:55,667 --> 00:43:58,359
really safe, you may think
you are, but you're not.
778
00:43:58,394 --> 00:44:01,190
- When it got hot in the
valley, Thomas and Alfred
779
00:44:01,224 --> 00:44:02,847
would bring their cows
up the mountain
780
00:44:02,881 --> 00:44:04,780
to this beautiful
pasture to graze.
781
00:44:04,814 --> 00:44:07,645
And so one day,
Thomas had this idea.
782
00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:12,132
He was like, "Let's make
a doll the size of a man.
783
00:44:12,166 --> 00:44:15,273
"It'd be fun to make and it
would scare away the crows.
784
00:44:15,307 --> 00:44:16,239
"What do you think?"
785
00:44:16,274 --> 00:44:18,448
And Alfred was like,
"That's a good idea.
786
00:44:18,483 --> 00:44:20,278
"You know what,
we should name it Harold."
787
00:44:20,312 --> 00:44:22,418
And Harold was the
name of the farmer
788
00:44:22,452 --> 00:44:24,385
that the guys just hated.
789
00:44:24,420 --> 00:44:26,053
- Then they decided there
must be some field mice
790
00:44:26,077 --> 00:44:28,044
inside of Harold or
something, so they put him
791
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:29,919
back out to do his work,
brought him in the next day
792
00:44:29,943 --> 00:44:31,358
and they heard Harold
grunt again.
793
00:44:31,392 --> 00:44:33,291
And now and then over
the next few months,
794
00:44:33,325 --> 00:44:34,855
Harold would grunt a
little bit more and one day
795
00:44:34,879 --> 00:44:36,501
he even began to talk.
796
00:44:36,535 --> 00:44:38,676
Then one day, one of
the two farmers woke up
797
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:40,954
and his partner was missing,
and he looked around
798
00:44:40,988 --> 00:44:43,104
and tried to find him, but
he couldn't find the partner
799
00:44:43,128 --> 00:44:44,554
and he couldn't find Harold
anywhere.
800
00:44:44,578 --> 00:44:45,900
But then he looked
up onto his roof
801
00:44:45,924 --> 00:44:49,790
and there was Herald,
spreading out a bloody skin.
802
00:44:51,136 --> 00:44:52,793
- One of my favorites is Harold.
803
00:44:52,828 --> 00:44:53,794
- Harold.
- Harold.
804
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:55,900
- Ooh, I know this one.
- Of course.
805
00:44:55,934 --> 00:44:57,039
- Yeah!
- Harold.
806
00:44:57,073 --> 00:44:58,799
- Yeah.
- What do you
807
00:44:58,834 --> 00:45:00,939
remember from it?
- The nightmares.
808
00:45:00,974 --> 00:45:02,745
- One of the reasons I
think I like it so much
809
00:45:02,769 --> 00:45:04,080
is because it's very timely
810
00:45:04,115 --> 00:45:05,668
'cause it's a story about
bullying.
811
00:45:05,703 --> 00:45:08,291
- It gave me nightmares
because of course,
812
00:45:08,326 --> 00:45:10,466
I was a little girl,
I had a lot of dolls
813
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:14,021
and all I did after that was
think about different ways
814
00:45:14,056 --> 00:45:15,540
that they might come to life.
815
00:45:15,574 --> 00:45:17,576
- Sometimes we are the
ones who are responsible
816
00:45:17,611 --> 00:45:20,338
for making the monster
who they are.
817
00:45:23,065 --> 00:45:26,344
- This biography was
published some years ago
818
00:45:26,378 --> 00:45:29,347
and I gave the publishers
this photo,
819
00:45:29,381 --> 00:45:32,971
but you can see that
it's the same one, yeah.
820
00:45:37,838 --> 00:45:40,738
He thoroughly researched
all of his topics
821
00:45:40,772 --> 00:45:43,016
and investigated many
different sources.
822
00:45:43,050 --> 00:45:44,845
Schwartz did a lot of his work
823
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,503
at Princeton University's
Firestone Library.
824
00:45:47,537 --> 00:45:50,713
While researching, Schwartz
looked for patterns.
825
00:45:50,748 --> 00:45:52,957
What did many of the folk
tales have in common,
826
00:45:52,991 --> 00:45:55,822
what similar elements
were present in stories
827
00:45:55,856 --> 00:45:57,064
from around the country?
828
00:45:59,308 --> 00:46:02,414
- From a very young age,
as soon as I could read,
829
00:46:02,449 --> 00:46:04,692
I was very tuned to my
grandfather's books
830
00:46:04,727 --> 00:46:07,247
and the Scary Stories books.
831
00:46:07,281 --> 00:46:09,870
- A lot of my relationships
with certain people
832
00:46:09,905 --> 00:46:12,735
that I know is founded on
the fact that they love
833
00:46:12,770 --> 00:46:14,540
these books, so whenever
they see me they're like,
834
00:46:14,564 --> 00:46:16,428
"Scary Stories guy!"
835
00:46:16,463 --> 00:46:18,741
I'm like, yeah.
836
00:46:18,776 --> 00:46:21,123
Growing up, I never really
saw in light of them
837
00:46:21,157 --> 00:46:24,471
being widely banned, I
just saw them as stories
838
00:46:24,505 --> 00:46:26,300
that my grandfather collected.
839
00:46:26,335 --> 00:46:30,995
I think now I see them
more as, the banned books,
840
00:46:31,029 --> 00:46:33,376
as part of their legacy
and I think now
841
00:46:33,411 --> 00:46:35,827
that is the point of
pride for me,
842
00:46:35,862 --> 00:46:37,518
the fact that they
were widely banned.
843
00:46:37,553 --> 00:46:40,004
I think that that
validates them.
844
00:46:43,697 --> 00:46:45,388
This is Firestone Library
on the campus
845
00:46:45,423 --> 00:46:46,849
of Princeton University,
where my grandpa
846
00:46:46,873 --> 00:46:49,807
used to research his Scary
Stories books.
847
00:46:56,883 --> 00:46:59,368
- Alvin Schwartz drew
on all the folk legends
848
00:46:59,402 --> 00:47:03,579
and old folklore,
folklore from everywhere
849
00:47:03,613 --> 00:47:06,651
and he found variations
of the stories,
850
00:47:06,685 --> 00:47:08,687
which I think kids
find really interesting
851
00:47:08,722 --> 00:47:10,448
and I love that in his books.
852
00:47:10,482 --> 00:47:13,831
My sources, I think, are
completely different.
853
00:47:13,865 --> 00:47:17,144
We were opposites in many
ways because his books
854
00:47:17,179 --> 00:47:19,698
were so completely researched.
855
00:47:19,733 --> 00:47:24,048
He would spend a year
researching these old ghost
stories
856
00:47:24,082 --> 00:47:26,947
and old legends from all over.
857
00:47:26,982 --> 00:47:29,260
I've never done
research in my life!
858
00:47:29,294 --> 00:47:32,125
- Another wonderful thing
about Schwartz's work
859
00:47:32,159 --> 00:47:36,888
is those links in the back
that he gives to collectors'
860
00:47:36,923 --> 00:47:40,064
work and what's marvelous
from a folklore
861
00:47:40,098 --> 00:47:42,894
and literature point of
view as a scholar
862
00:47:42,929 --> 00:47:46,794
is how I see children interact
with that.
863
00:47:46,829 --> 00:47:49,832
You get a child that's really
precocious
864
00:47:49,867 --> 00:47:53,594
and interested in the world,
if you flip to the back
865
00:47:53,629 --> 00:47:55,493
and you see that source
material,
866
00:47:55,527 --> 00:48:00,532
you go, oh jeez, I had no
idea that they told folktales
867
00:48:01,223 --> 00:48:04,467
in Guatemala or India or
wherever the place may be
868
00:48:04,502 --> 00:48:07,815
and now suddenly
you have a source
869
00:48:07,850 --> 00:48:10,266
and if the child is lucky
enough to have the internet
870
00:48:10,301 --> 00:48:13,407
at home or to have a
university library nearby,
871
00:48:13,442 --> 00:48:17,032
they can go and they can
bring in those collections
872
00:48:17,066 --> 00:48:21,726
and they can read and
have their eyes opened
873
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,970
in a way that they never had
before.
874
00:48:27,007 --> 00:48:30,010
- They played all sorts
of foolish pranks with it,
875
00:48:30,045 --> 00:48:33,324
smeared it with cream and
pudding and finally went so far
876
00:48:33,358 --> 00:48:35,395
as to baptize it.
877
00:48:35,429 --> 00:48:38,018
Now it came to life
and began to talk.
878
00:48:42,126 --> 00:48:45,232
- One of the more interesting
dimensions of that story
879
00:48:45,267 --> 00:48:48,063
is that in the original
source material,
880
00:48:48,097 --> 00:48:50,962
they baptize Harold
when they create him.
881
00:48:50,997 --> 00:48:53,033
What's especially
interesting with Harold
882
00:48:53,068 --> 00:48:56,174
is the connection between
the baptism and Napoleon.
883
00:48:57,244 --> 00:48:58,428
It's sort of weaponizing baptism
884
00:48:58,452 --> 00:49:01,939
and it becomes not a
type of liberation,
885
00:49:01,973 --> 00:49:05,252
but it becomes another
form of control,
886
00:49:05,287 --> 00:49:07,910
then that's potentially
Promethean.
887
00:49:07,945 --> 00:49:11,362
I mean, that's like
stealing fire from the gods
888
00:49:11,396 --> 00:49:13,502
and it's dangerous.
889
00:49:20,647 --> 00:49:23,581
- Some stories verge
on straight jokes.
890
00:49:23,615 --> 00:49:26,618
There are dozens of
stories of this type.
891
00:49:26,653 --> 00:49:29,104
A man calls up a woman
on the fall and tells her
892
00:49:29,138 --> 00:49:31,830
he's coming up to her apartment.
893
00:49:31,865 --> 00:49:36,835
She asked who he is and he
says, "The Widow Viper."
894
00:49:37,181 --> 00:49:39,562
- One of the stories in
the Scary Stories books
895
00:49:39,597 --> 00:49:42,703
that I think mixes
humor and horror so well
896
00:49:42,738 --> 00:49:46,949
is The Viper where there's a
woman who is in her apartment
897
00:49:46,984 --> 00:49:49,434
and this man keeps
calling her and he says,
898
00:49:49,469 --> 00:49:51,781
"I am the Viper
and I'm coming upstairs."
899
00:49:51,816 --> 00:49:53,680
And she's like,
"Oh no, the Viper!"
900
00:49:53,714 --> 00:49:55,923
That sounds like some
kind of serial killer
901
00:49:55,958 --> 00:49:58,478
or maybe a monster snake.
902
00:49:58,512 --> 00:50:01,412
And so she calls the police,
but the guy comes upstairs first
903
00:50:01,446 --> 00:50:04,139
and then she opens the door
and he's standing there
904
00:50:04,173 --> 00:50:05,968
and he's holding a
bucket and a rag
905
00:50:06,003 --> 00:50:08,119
and he says, "I am the viper,
I am here vipe your vindows."
906
00:50:08,143 --> 00:50:09,868
And so in my head anyway,
907
00:50:09,903 --> 00:50:11,870
he always had a
Transylvanian accent.
908
00:50:16,358 --> 00:50:19,326
- The Vindow Viper is
probably my favorite story
909
00:50:19,361 --> 00:50:21,259
from the Scary Stories books.
910
00:50:21,294 --> 00:50:24,400
It really reads like a joke
with a setup and punchline
911
00:50:24,435 --> 00:50:27,748
and what the humor does is it
sort of brings the narrator
912
00:50:27,783 --> 00:50:31,545
to the fore at the
end of this story,
913
00:50:31,580 --> 00:50:34,065
really a cathartic
feeling when you hear that
914
00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:36,550
and you're just like,
sigh of relief
915
00:50:36,585 --> 00:50:38,311
and the humor really
brings that out.
916
00:50:38,345 --> 00:50:40,392
- The stories can be linked
to the local environment,
917
00:50:40,416 --> 00:50:42,867
it can be linked to the
cultural environment,
918
00:50:43,902 --> 00:50:46,767
but what's really
interesting is they take you
919
00:50:46,802 --> 00:50:49,563
right to the edge of
your seat and suddenly
920
00:50:49,598 --> 00:50:52,359
ah yeah, it's the Viper.
921
00:50:52,394 --> 00:50:56,225
I vant to vash your vindows,
and it's not a big deal.
922
00:50:56,260 --> 00:50:58,986
They're gonna come wash your
windows and what's happened
923
00:50:59,021 --> 00:51:02,818
is you've been taken right
along the line of belief
924
00:51:02,852 --> 00:51:06,408
right to the
point where you expect
925
00:51:06,442 --> 00:51:09,066
this to be like
every other legend.
926
00:51:09,100 --> 00:51:11,033
I'm gonna be challenged.
927
00:51:11,068 --> 00:51:12,931
But the way you're actually
challenged
928
00:51:12,966 --> 00:51:15,865
your expectation is challenged,
929
00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:18,385
and that's where that
subtext of humor comes in.
930
00:51:18,420 --> 00:51:20,387
- There is a saying,
he who takes a trip
931
00:51:20,422 --> 00:51:22,527
has something to tell.
932
00:51:22,562 --> 00:51:24,184
The teller of the
legend takes a trip
933
00:51:24,219 --> 00:51:25,565
to a very different world,
934
00:51:25,599 --> 00:51:28,085
one which lies beyond the
mundane reality
935
00:51:28,119 --> 00:51:29,741
of everyday life.
936
00:51:29,776 --> 00:51:31,226
- So that kind of Eastern
European,
937
00:51:31,260 --> 00:51:35,989
German-esque changing of
just a consonant sound
938
00:51:36,023 --> 00:51:40,718
gives a story that could
be very well placed
939
00:51:40,752 --> 00:51:42,789
in many locations across the
United States
940
00:51:42,823 --> 00:51:44,273
'cause the German influx
941
00:51:44,308 --> 00:51:46,517
settled in many,
many different places
942
00:51:47,587 --> 00:51:50,659
and it gives someone the chance
943
00:51:50,693 --> 00:51:55,491
to think about
outsiders versus insiders,
944
00:51:55,526 --> 00:51:58,218
one of the really neat
things about folklore
945
00:51:58,253 --> 00:52:01,256
and then one of the things
that's a little bit touchy
946
00:52:01,290 --> 00:52:03,810
we well is when you have
a whole lot of people
947
00:52:03,844 --> 00:52:06,053
who are very similar,
then the world
948
00:52:06,088 --> 00:52:10,472
is supposed to be one way,
we have one point of view.
949
00:52:10,506 --> 00:52:13,406
Scary Stories are a place where
we can challenge ourselves
950
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,133
with points of view from away.
951
00:52:17,444 --> 00:52:19,101
They may be other regions,
952
00:52:19,136 --> 00:52:22,208
other countries, somebody
who speaks a foreign language
953
00:52:22,242 --> 00:52:23,564
and eats really weird stuff
and you're not really sure
954
00:52:23,588 --> 00:52:25,221
what it is 'cause you
don't recognize the name
955
00:52:25,245 --> 00:52:26,971
in the other language.
956
00:52:27,005 --> 00:52:29,249
- My name is Gary Fine,
I am a professor
957
00:52:29,284 --> 00:52:32,701
os Sociology at
Northwestern University.
958
00:52:32,735 --> 00:52:36,429
I believe it was
about 30 years ago
959
00:52:36,463 --> 00:52:40,329
that I received a phone
call from Alvin Schwartz.
960
00:52:43,367 --> 00:52:47,198
It was kind of exciting,
I have to say.
961
00:52:47,233 --> 00:52:50,719
I was a young scholar, I have
to say, and to see my name
962
00:52:50,753 --> 00:52:53,204
in print in one of
the series of books
963
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,759
that was aimed at children,
Sam's New Pet
964
00:52:56,794 --> 00:53:01,799
is a classic rewriting of
the Mexican Pet legend,
965
00:53:03,041 --> 00:53:05,906
and this is a legend that
perhaps today
966
00:53:05,941 --> 00:53:09,979
is even more relevant
than it has ever been.
967
00:53:10,014 --> 00:53:15,019
It was really spread widely
at first in the 1980s,
968
00:53:15,744 --> 00:53:18,712
but why would it have
been spread at that point?
969
00:53:18,747 --> 00:53:22,544
It is a story about naive
Americans
970
00:53:22,578 --> 00:53:27,583
who go to a third world land
and admire the people there,
971
00:53:28,722 --> 00:53:33,727
but also they decide
against the laws.
972
00:53:33,762 --> 00:53:38,767
Illegally, they will bring
one of these foreign animals,
973
00:53:39,250 --> 00:53:43,081
these foreign creatures
onto American shores.
974
00:53:43,116 --> 00:53:47,569
And of course, the story
is about how that seeming
975
00:53:47,603 --> 00:53:51,538
act of kindness is dangerous,
976
00:53:51,573 --> 00:53:55,335
and this is a story that
was relevant in the 1980s
977
00:53:55,370 --> 00:53:58,476
when we had discussions about
immigration
978
00:53:58,511 --> 00:54:02,066
and remains relevant today.
979
00:54:02,100 --> 00:54:03,447
- The really interesting stories
980
00:54:03,481 --> 00:54:06,104
that are the challenge, taboos,
981
00:54:06,139 --> 00:54:09,107
and expectations about culture
are the ones that focus
982
00:54:09,142 --> 00:54:10,913
on the people from away
'cause you don't really know
983
00:54:10,937 --> 00:54:13,905
what they think, you don't
really know what they believe,
984
00:54:13,940 --> 00:54:16,667
not really sure what
they eat, not really sure
985
00:54:16,701 --> 00:54:19,911
how they think about morality.
986
00:54:19,946 --> 00:54:24,985
They might sell you a diseased
rat as a hairless dog.
987
00:54:32,338 --> 00:54:35,651
- The Scary Stories tales
include a number of stories
988
00:54:35,686 --> 00:54:38,447
taken from right here in the
Ozarks of southern Missouri
989
00:54:38,482 --> 00:54:40,104
and northern Arkansas.
990
00:54:40,138 --> 00:54:43,314
The Ozarks experienced
the Civil War in a manner
991
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:46,766
very different from much
of the rest of the country.
992
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,699
And one of the old tropes
about the Civil War
993
00:54:48,733 --> 00:54:51,184
is that it was a war fought
between neighbor and neighbor
994
00:54:51,218 --> 00:54:52,392
and brother and brother.
995
00:54:52,427 --> 00:54:55,706
In most parts of the country,
that's not really true.
996
00:54:55,740 --> 00:54:57,915
Most of the combatants
didn't actually know
997
00:54:57,949 --> 00:54:59,192
the person they were killing
998
00:54:59,226 --> 00:55:01,608
or who were trying to kill them.
999
00:55:01,643 --> 00:55:05,094
Here in the Ozarks, it
very often was the case.
1000
00:55:05,129 --> 00:55:08,028
So by the end of the war,
that left the population
1001
00:55:08,063 --> 00:55:11,722
of southern Missouri and
northern Arkansas
1002
00:55:11,756 --> 00:55:15,312
deeply divided amongst
themselves.
1003
00:55:15,346 --> 00:55:18,901
It left a legacy of
bitterness and mistrust
1004
00:55:18,936 --> 00:55:22,560
and it comes through
in the art, the songs,
1005
00:55:22,595 --> 00:55:25,080
the stories that people tell.
1006
00:55:25,114 --> 00:55:28,221
So for example,
in the story Alligators,
1007
00:55:28,255 --> 00:55:32,190
you have a story about a
young woman who marries a man,
1008
00:55:32,225 --> 00:55:35,918
actually has two children
with him and it turns out
1009
00:55:35,953 --> 00:55:38,921
he is a shape
shifter of some sort,
1010
00:55:38,956 --> 00:55:43,340
he goes down to the creek at
night and he goes swimming
1011
00:55:43,374 --> 00:55:46,032
and when he gets into the water,
he turns into an alligator.
1012
00:55:46,066 --> 00:55:49,104
And not only that,
but his sons do.
1013
00:55:49,138 --> 00:55:52,556
Well, what is this story
trying to communicate to us?
1014
00:55:52,590 --> 00:55:56,422
The sense of extreme
anxiety that people had
1015
00:55:56,456 --> 00:55:58,769
over who they could
trust that affected
1016
00:55:58,803 --> 00:56:03,601
even some of the most basic
relationship decisions.
1017
00:56:03,636 --> 00:56:07,571
The story Wonderful Sausage
is taken from an Ozark folk
1018
00:56:07,605 --> 00:56:12,058
story called The Bloody Miller,
collected by Vance Randolph.
1019
00:56:12,092 --> 00:56:15,751
There's a proprietor of a
gristmill much like this one
1020
00:56:15,786 --> 00:56:18,513
who gets into a
fight with his wife.
1021
00:56:18,547 --> 00:56:21,792
He kills her in a fit of
rage, he grinds her body up
1022
00:56:21,826 --> 00:56:24,726
and sells it as sausage.
1023
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,384
In the process, he
discovers that human meat
1024
00:56:27,418 --> 00:56:29,040
makes the best sausage.
1025
00:56:29,075 --> 00:56:30,697
Of course, not everybody
had the means
1026
00:56:30,732 --> 00:56:33,217
or the wherewithal at that time
1027
00:56:33,251 --> 00:56:35,564
to make their own sausage.
1028
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:39,050
That meant that you are
trusting somebody else
1029
00:56:39,085 --> 00:56:41,018
with what into your belly.
1030
00:56:41,052 --> 00:56:42,882
One of the interesting
thematic connections
1031
00:56:42,916 --> 00:56:45,022
between a story like
The Bloody Miller
1032
00:56:45,056 --> 00:56:48,784
and The Cat's Paw,
Little Black Dog,
1033
00:56:48,819 --> 00:56:53,824
is the issue of mistrust
and also social anxiety,
1034
00:56:54,238 --> 00:56:57,862
the idea that you don't always
know what your neighbor,
1035
00:56:57,897 --> 00:57:00,589
your friend, or even
your significant other,
1036
00:57:00,624 --> 00:57:03,281
your spouse, is capable of.
1037
00:57:15,259 --> 00:57:19,539
- I remember the
last time I saw him,
1038
00:57:21,299 --> 00:57:24,371
the cancer had
gone into his brain
1039
00:57:24,406 --> 00:57:26,166
and he had a few weeks to live.
1040
00:57:26,201 --> 00:57:27,685
He didn't really know that.
1041
00:57:28,548 --> 00:57:30,319
And then we drove to the
airport and I got out
1042
00:57:30,343 --> 00:57:32,932
and I knew that I
wouldn't see him again
1043
00:57:32,966 --> 00:57:37,971
and I had this strong impulse
to tell him that I loved him
1044
00:57:41,112 --> 00:57:44,495
and I wasn't able to do it, and
I just remember walking away
1045
00:57:44,530 --> 00:57:45,669
and that was it.
1046
00:57:49,155 --> 00:57:51,640
- Death in children's
literature is a perennial theme.
1047
00:57:51,675 --> 00:57:54,885
One of the themes
that is most affecting,
1048
00:57:54,919 --> 00:57:57,163
that is one of the
themes that appeals most
1049
00:57:57,197 --> 00:57:59,890
to our imaginations
through our emotions,
1050
00:57:59,924 --> 00:58:04,342
but it also is fascinating
for children in terms
1051
00:58:04,377 --> 00:58:08,381
of helping them
develop a sense of self.
1052
00:58:08,415 --> 00:58:11,936
Some kids are
incessantly curious.
1053
00:58:11,971 --> 00:58:14,525
They've really got that
hyperactive epistamaphilic
impulse.
1054
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:18,667
They want to know well,
what does it look like
1055
00:58:18,702 --> 00:58:19,772
to be dead?
1056
00:58:19,806 --> 00:58:21,163
Not just what
happens after we die.
1057
00:58:21,187 --> 00:58:23,085
They don't want some nebulous,
1058
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,225
we're all, you know, we turn
into spirits.
1059
00:58:25,260 --> 00:58:27,124
No, I want to know about
the worms crawl in,
1060
00:58:27,158 --> 00:58:28,332
the worlds crawl out.
1061
00:58:28,366 --> 00:58:32,681
- I was in a discussion
just a couple of days ago,
1062
00:58:32,716 --> 00:58:36,789
you know, the cremation
versus burial debate
1063
00:58:36,823 --> 00:58:41,828
and what came to mind but
that particular rhyme,
1064
00:58:42,242 --> 00:58:44,279
the worms crawl in,
the worms crawl out.
1065
00:58:44,313 --> 00:58:46,177
Children need these outlets.
1066
00:58:46,212 --> 00:58:50,250
They need to have platforms.
1067
00:58:50,285 --> 00:58:55,255
Verse, chant silly songs
that enable them somehow
1068
00:58:55,290 --> 00:58:57,637
to banish their fears.
1069
00:58:57,672 --> 00:59:00,813
The young are precocious,
they know that people die,
1070
00:59:00,847 --> 00:59:03,540
but nobody will talk
to them about it.
1071
00:59:03,574 --> 00:59:06,335
- The importance of
giving a name and a face
1072
00:59:06,370 --> 00:59:10,098
to our fears is the first way to
come from
1073
00:59:10,132 --> 00:59:14,447
because if you say to a child
oh, that will never happen,
1074
00:59:14,481 --> 00:59:15,655
do you know what?
1075
00:59:15,690 --> 00:59:19,141
Sometimes it does, but what
we can do is give children
1076
00:59:19,176 --> 00:59:23,145
the power to acknowledge
what they're feeling.
1077
00:59:23,180 --> 00:59:26,459
It is wrong to say that
there is nothing to fear.
1078
00:59:26,493 --> 00:59:28,599
There are all kinds
of things to fear.
1079
00:59:28,634 --> 00:59:32,189
Anything that can happen
that's going to help us
1080
00:59:32,223 --> 00:59:36,193
figure out how we
can begin to control it
1081
00:59:36,227 --> 00:59:38,126
is really, really important.
1082
00:59:46,997 --> 00:59:49,171
- The next day was Halloween.
1083
00:59:49,206 --> 00:59:51,795
We have a parade at our schools.
1084
01:00:02,875 --> 01:00:04,635
I was just getting
ready for the morning.
1085
01:00:04,670 --> 01:00:06,844
The principal comes
tearing into the room.
1086
01:00:06,879 --> 01:00:10,503
She says, "Miriam, Miriam,
you have got to see this!"
1087
01:00:10,537 --> 01:00:12,643
And I go running
out of the library
1088
01:00:12,678 --> 01:00:16,820
and coming up the driveway
is the complaining mother
1089
01:00:16,854 --> 01:00:19,236
with her two daughters.
1090
01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:22,239
The third grade is
dressed like a witch
1091
01:00:22,273 --> 01:00:26,795
and the kindergartner is
dressed like a skeleton
1092
01:00:26,830 --> 01:00:31,006
and they're carrying ghost
balloons for their classroom.
1093
01:00:32,663 --> 01:00:35,908
Well, as part of the day's
festivities,
1094
01:00:35,942 --> 01:00:39,912
we took pictures of children,
including the third grader
1095
01:00:39,946 --> 01:00:43,156
and the kindergartner,
which we then printed
1096
01:00:43,191 --> 01:00:46,090
and gave to the superintendent.
1097
01:00:46,125 --> 01:00:47,989
The superintendent had the
mother come in
1098
01:00:48,023 --> 01:00:52,407
and suggest that probably
she needed to withdraw
1099
01:00:52,441 --> 01:00:57,446
her complaint that it
was totally ungrounded.
1100
01:01:06,007 --> 01:01:08,734
- Parents and teachers in
a Seattle suburb will vote
1101
01:01:08,768 --> 01:01:11,150
next week on a
plan to ban three books
1102
01:01:11,184 --> 01:01:13,255
from an elementary
school library.
1103
01:01:13,290 --> 01:01:14,981
Those who want to
get rid of the books
1104
01:01:15,016 --> 01:01:17,604
say they're just too
gruesome for young readers.
1105
01:01:17,639 --> 01:01:19,745
More from Susanna Frame.
1106
01:01:19,779 --> 01:01:21,781
- I was upset by the graphic
illustrations
1107
01:01:21,816 --> 01:01:24,784
and violent stories.
- A debate broke out here
1108
01:01:24,819 --> 01:01:27,373
over death, the devil, and
dismemberment,
1109
01:01:27,407 --> 01:01:30,203
all topics stemming from
three thin books of folklore
1110
01:01:30,238 --> 01:01:33,413
called the Scary Stories
by Alvin Schwartz.
1111
01:01:33,448 --> 01:01:35,081
- And sure, they're
gonna be afraid of fires,
1112
01:01:35,105 --> 01:01:38,384
and drowning, and strangers,
but why do they have to live
1113
01:01:38,418 --> 01:01:40,766
with this fear that
somebody's gonna chop 'em up
1114
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:42,664
and eat them?
- Parents behind the book
1115
01:01:42,699 --> 01:01:45,080
say this is a clearcut case of
censorship
1116
01:01:45,115 --> 01:01:47,842
and that the tales are actually
good for their children.
1117
01:01:47,876 --> 01:01:51,190
- Back in 1993, I was
a children's librarian
1118
01:01:51,224 --> 01:01:54,745
at the Public
Library and some moms
1119
01:01:54,780 --> 01:01:56,205
who lived in
Kingsgate that was right
1120
01:01:56,229 --> 01:01:59,129
close to my library got it in
their heads
1121
01:01:59,163 --> 01:02:02,753
to challenge the Lake of
Washington School District
1122
01:02:02,788 --> 01:02:06,239
for having he Alvin Schwartz
books in the school libraries.
1123
01:02:06,274 --> 01:02:10,002
- Suddenly I was not just a
concerned mother, I was a censor
1124
01:02:10,036 --> 01:02:13,557
because I wanted
to ban these books.
1125
01:02:13,591 --> 01:02:15,052
- And so the Lake Washington
School Board
1126
01:02:15,076 --> 01:02:16,180
had a hearing.
1127
01:02:16,215 --> 01:02:18,769
The school librarians asked
me if I would come too
1128
01:02:18,804 --> 01:02:22,324
as the local public librarian
and also because I had
1129
01:02:22,359 --> 01:02:26,156
a PhD in Folklore and I could
speak about the oral tradition
1130
01:02:26,190 --> 01:02:27,709
and the history of these stories
1131
01:02:27,744 --> 01:02:29,066
and maybe get a little
background there.
1132
01:02:29,090 --> 01:02:30,919
- Parents behind the books say
1133
01:02:30,954 --> 01:02:33,542
this is a clearcut case of
censorship, and that the tales
1134
01:02:33,577 --> 01:02:35,959
are actually good
for their children.
1135
01:02:35,993 --> 01:02:38,616
- There's no way they can
think about what happens
1136
01:02:38,651 --> 01:02:40,411
once a person dies and
they're in the grave.
1137
01:02:40,446 --> 01:02:41,516
Do they rot?
1138
01:02:41,550 --> 01:02:43,276
What happens when you die?
1139
01:02:43,311 --> 01:02:44,415
You rot.
1140
01:02:44,450 --> 01:02:45,727
Can you talk about it?
1141
01:02:45,762 --> 01:02:47,246
Uh-uh, but kids thing about it
1142
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,387
and these stories help
them think about it openly.
1143
01:02:50,421 --> 01:02:53,217
Which of course is the
crux of the whole thing.
1144
01:02:53,252 --> 01:02:56,531
Our kids don't get to hear
that you rot when you die.
1145
01:02:56,565 --> 01:02:59,258
- It's about age
appropriateness.
1146
01:02:59,292 --> 01:03:02,226
I'm not saying take them
out of all libraries,
1147
01:03:02,261 --> 01:03:03,469
I'm just saying take them out
1148
01:03:03,503 --> 01:03:04,815
of elementary school libraries.
1149
01:03:04,850 --> 01:03:06,955
They do not belong there.
1150
01:03:06,990 --> 01:03:11,270
The committee said we're
gonna keep the books.
1151
01:03:11,304 --> 01:03:13,513
I said okay, then I'm
gonna now take it
1152
01:03:13,548 --> 01:03:16,723
to the school board because
that was my other alternative
1153
01:03:16,758 --> 01:03:17,690
'cause that's what
they said to me,
1154
01:03:17,724 --> 01:03:19,243
take it to the school board.
1155
01:03:19,278 --> 01:03:22,833
- There were many cases
of school boards debating
1156
01:03:22,868 --> 01:03:26,561
whether to keep Goosebumps
in the school library
1157
01:03:26,595 --> 01:03:31,014
or not and I'm happy to
say that in most cases,
1158
01:03:31,048 --> 01:03:34,672
the books were kept on the
shelves, most.
1159
01:03:34,707 --> 01:03:38,090
There was a wonderful,
now it was in Minnesota,
1160
01:03:38,124 --> 01:03:40,851
I think, where a school
board was going to take
1161
01:03:40,886 --> 01:03:44,544
all the Goosebumps books
away from their schools
1162
01:03:44,579 --> 01:03:46,339
and it was on C-SPAN.
1163
01:03:46,374 --> 01:03:48,928
- William W. Garrison Franklin.
1164
01:03:48,963 --> 01:03:52,000
- And a father stood up
and he had a big stack
1165
01:03:52,035 --> 01:03:53,484
of Goosebumps books.
1166
01:03:53,519 --> 01:03:55,555
- My name's Bill Garrison.
1167
01:03:55,590 --> 01:03:57,695
My daughter goes to Franklin.
1168
01:03:57,730 --> 01:04:01,216
I'm unable to read to
her for the simple fact
1169
01:04:01,251 --> 01:04:03,978
that I'm a single parent
and I have no time
1170
01:04:04,012 --> 01:04:07,774
to read for her, but these
Goosebumps collection
1171
01:04:07,809 --> 01:04:10,916
that I have here, which I
have not seen one tonight,
1172
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:15,196
encouraged her to read and if
they're taken off the shelves,
1173
01:04:15,230 --> 01:04:18,095
then I'm afraid she's
gonna lose interest to read
1174
01:04:18,130 --> 01:04:22,444
and is gonna end up like
me without a decent job
1175
01:04:22,479 --> 01:04:24,481
because I have no education.
1176
01:04:24,515 --> 01:04:27,311
- I want her to be able
to read what she loves
1177
01:04:27,346 --> 01:04:30,314
and I'm home in tears watching
this guy.
1178
01:04:30,349 --> 01:04:32,489
I'm like, it was amazing.
1179
01:04:32,523 --> 01:04:35,319
- If the kids choose to
read 'em, more power to 'em,
1180
01:04:35,354 --> 01:04:37,701
if the parents don't choose
to have 'em in the home,
1181
01:04:37,735 --> 01:04:39,876
more power to 'em.
1182
01:04:39,910 --> 01:04:41,670
I'm one for to keep 'em
with the books.
1183
01:04:41,705 --> 01:04:42,889
- Thank you.
- One thing you notice
1184
01:04:42,913 --> 01:04:43,925
about book hearings
is that people
1185
01:04:43,949 --> 01:04:46,261
are very passionate at them.
1186
01:04:46,296 --> 01:04:47,676
- That's disgusting!
1187
01:04:47,711 --> 01:04:49,402
This is disgusting.
- I think we're gonna
1188
01:04:49,437 --> 01:04:50,541
call a recess. - Now don't.
1189
01:04:50,576 --> 01:04:54,028
- I have been coming to
board meetings for 11 years!
1190
01:04:54,062 --> 01:04:56,547
- Don't touch her.
- It's absurd!
1191
01:04:56,582 --> 01:04:57,686
Everybody's playing around
1192
01:04:57,721 --> 01:04:58,687
about what the
context of this is.
1193
01:04:58,722 --> 01:05:00,655
Nobody's talking
about censoring the book,
1194
01:05:00,689 --> 01:05:02,760
nobody's talking about
banning the book or burning
1195
01:05:02,795 --> 01:05:04,521
the book or anything.
1196
01:05:04,555 --> 01:05:06,247
- If they would engage in sex,
1197
01:05:06,281 --> 01:05:07,327
as it is suggested
in these books,
1198
01:05:07,351 --> 01:05:11,286
the students are well on
their way to catch STD.
1199
01:05:12,356 --> 01:05:14,841
- I have to tell you
though, I was thinking
1200
01:05:14,876 --> 01:05:16,843
that when I was younger,
1201
01:05:16,878 --> 01:05:21,503
around 13, if it would
have been so easy
1202
01:05:21,538 --> 01:05:24,196
to find the dirty
books in the library
1203
01:05:24,230 --> 01:05:27,958
because they were labeled,
that would have been perfect.
1204
01:05:27,993 --> 01:05:29,822
That would have been great.
1205
01:05:29,856 --> 01:05:33,826
- Our children
exposed to explicit,
1206
01:05:33,860 --> 01:05:36,691
filthy, racist things.
1207
01:05:37,692 --> 01:05:42,007
- There's emotion,
there is anger.
1208
01:05:42,041 --> 01:05:45,113
- The ending part says
the wood cutter
1209
01:05:45,148 --> 01:05:48,910
took a pair of scissors
and cut open the stomach
1210
01:05:48,945 --> 01:05:52,017
of the wolf to free
grandma and Riding Hood.
1211
01:05:52,949 --> 01:05:55,986
This is scary and gory for
kindergarten.
1212
01:05:56,021 --> 01:05:59,990
- There is disgust, there
is self-righteousness.
1213
01:06:00,025 --> 01:06:04,822
- These children
came from our wombs.
1214
01:06:04,857 --> 01:06:09,482
You have them as teachers
for a small part of a day.
1215
01:06:10,311 --> 01:06:12,209
We have 'em for a lifetime.
1216
01:06:12,244 --> 01:06:14,694
- Parents come in
armed with the books
1217
01:06:14,729 --> 01:06:16,110
marked with passages.
1218
01:06:16,144 --> 01:06:18,664
Maybe they're highlighted,
maybe they have Post-It notes
1219
01:06:18,698 --> 01:06:21,839
in them, they're ready to
spout off all the words.
1220
01:06:21,874 --> 01:06:24,221
Maybe they counted
all the curse words.
1221
01:06:24,256 --> 01:06:26,258
- I'm going to read out
loud some information
1222
01:06:26,292 --> 01:06:29,157
and excerpts from the
book The Handmaid's Tale.
1223
01:06:29,192 --> 01:06:31,332
This book has 300
pages which contain
1224
01:06:31,366 --> 01:06:33,437
some of the following.
- People want to get up
1225
01:06:33,472 --> 01:06:35,853
on that soapbox and
say I am so much better
1226
01:06:35,888 --> 01:06:37,096
than this book!
1227
01:06:37,131 --> 01:06:38,718
I don't read this smut.
1228
01:06:38,753 --> 01:06:42,688
- Seven sex acts,
64 sexual allusions,
1229
01:06:42,722 --> 01:06:46,243
11 references to suicide
with three being carried out,
1230
01:06:46,278 --> 01:06:50,661
others include drugs, drinking,
smoking, and profanity.
1231
01:06:50,696 --> 01:06:53,147
- We all have to be able
to stand for almighty God
1232
01:06:53,181 --> 01:06:56,667
and be judged for our actions.
1233
01:06:56,702 --> 01:07:00,395
That being said, I'm very
concerned for every one of you
1234
01:07:00,430 --> 01:07:03,364
and everybody in this community
1235
01:07:03,398 --> 01:07:05,780
that is willing to
place this type
1236
01:07:05,814 --> 01:07:07,954
of material upon our children.
1237
01:07:07,989 --> 01:07:12,511
- And I don't want to
necessarily stand up
1238
01:07:12,545 --> 01:07:17,550
for curse words or sexually
explicit scenes or violence.
1239
01:07:17,964 --> 01:07:22,038
They use these words that
are not true to the book.
1240
01:07:22,072 --> 01:07:23,222
They'll say that this young
adult book
1241
01:07:23,246 --> 01:07:25,386
that is a best seller
and was turned
1242
01:07:25,420 --> 01:07:27,077
into a movie is pornography.
1243
01:07:27,112 --> 01:07:29,424
It's not pornography,
there's a sex scene in it.
1244
01:07:29,459 --> 01:07:31,254
It doesn't make it pornography.
1245
01:07:31,288 --> 01:07:32,369
- What's so fascinating
about them
1246
01:07:32,393 --> 01:07:35,085
is that people are
talking about reading
1247
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:38,847
and the act of reading and
how much it has influence
1248
01:07:38,882 --> 01:07:40,711
over someone's life.
1249
01:07:40,746 --> 01:07:44,336
- And too often the only
support these young people
1250
01:07:44,370 --> 01:07:47,684
can find is in their
library where they can read
1251
01:07:47,718 --> 01:07:49,962
from a book that
there's someone else
1252
01:07:49,996 --> 01:07:53,172
who's experiencing
the same thing.
1253
01:07:53,207 --> 01:07:56,072
- Reading is one of the
most powerful practices
1254
01:07:56,106 --> 01:07:58,177
that we could do and
that's what you see
1255
01:07:58,212 --> 01:08:01,870
at a book hearing,
is the passion
1256
01:08:01,905 --> 01:08:03,527
that people talk about books.
1257
01:08:03,562 --> 01:08:06,289
I've found, when I
studied book censors,
1258
01:08:06,323 --> 01:08:10,224
is that it actually changes
with whatever's going on
1259
01:08:10,258 --> 01:08:13,468
in society, and often this
happens in times of strife.
1260
01:08:13,503 --> 01:08:18,128
So one time was
during the Civil War,
1261
01:08:18,163 --> 01:08:22,167
during the World War II.
1262
01:08:22,201 --> 01:08:24,065
What we see in the
'80s was of course
1263
01:08:24,100 --> 01:08:25,653
the rise of the religious right.
1264
01:08:25,687 --> 01:08:29,277
There were all these scares
about sickness
1265
01:08:29,312 --> 01:08:32,522
in your neighborhood
where there was like,
1266
01:08:32,556 --> 01:08:34,938
ritual child sacrifice
taking place
1267
01:08:34,972 --> 01:08:37,596
in your suburban neighborhood.
1268
01:08:37,630 --> 01:08:40,461
It was just in the ether then,
1269
01:08:40,495 --> 01:08:43,498
so of course because you
were hearing on the news
1270
01:08:43,533 --> 01:08:46,777
that there were satanists
in your neighborhood,
1271
01:08:46,812 --> 01:08:48,710
of course, you would be
concerned about books
1272
01:08:48,745 --> 01:08:51,368
that seemed to
touch on these ideas.
1273
01:08:51,403 --> 01:08:53,301
What I'm seeing now as we move
1274
01:08:53,336 --> 01:08:55,752
towards a more
multicultural society
1275
01:08:55,786 --> 01:08:58,410
is you see more books
about LGBTQIA populations
1276
01:08:58,444 --> 01:09:03,415
about ethnic minorities,
those sorts of books
1277
01:09:03,794 --> 01:09:07,764
are what we see now that
are being challenged.
1278
01:09:07,798 --> 01:09:11,181
- If those stories get
lost and get replaced
1279
01:09:11,216 --> 01:09:16,221
by artificial stories, then
I think we've lost something.
1280
01:09:16,704 --> 01:09:19,707
It's not that these are nice
stories, they certainly aren't
1281
01:09:19,741 --> 01:09:24,056
and perhaps some of these
stories deserve
1282
01:09:24,090 --> 01:09:27,956
to be put on the dustbin of
history,
1283
01:09:27,991 --> 01:09:30,442
but they are still authentic,
1284
01:09:30,476 --> 01:09:33,341
authentic tot he groups
themselves
1285
01:09:33,376 --> 01:09:35,895
and I would hate
to be in a society
1286
01:09:35,930 --> 01:09:40,935
in which children's
stories are so thoroughly
1287
01:09:40,969 --> 01:09:43,213
controlled by adults.
1288
01:09:43,248 --> 01:09:47,010
- Dealing still with
issues of identity
1289
01:09:47,044 --> 01:09:52,049
that have to do with how you,
many ways, still how you think
1290
01:09:52,084 --> 01:09:54,604
about your parents is
connected with how you think
1291
01:09:54,638 --> 01:09:59,643
about yourself and despite
the fact that he had written
1292
01:09:59,988 --> 01:10:04,338
all these books and
had his ups and downs
1293
01:10:04,372 --> 01:10:07,755
and still was at it and this
was how he supported his family
1294
01:10:07,789 --> 01:10:12,725
through the years, I
just didn't understand
1295
01:10:16,384 --> 01:10:19,525
what his goal was as a writer.
1296
01:10:21,147 --> 01:10:23,011
I remember being in the
living room with him
1297
01:10:23,046 --> 01:10:24,910
and I was probably
in my early 20s
1298
01:10:24,944 --> 01:10:28,154
and telling him that I
felt like he was,
1299
01:10:33,470 --> 01:10:35,369
let's see, what was it?
1300
01:10:40,339 --> 01:10:44,792
Basically I said I don't
think what you've done
1301
01:10:44,826 --> 01:10:47,726
is worthwhile, I don't know why
1302
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:49,969
you don't do more
ambitious projects.
1303
01:10:50,004 --> 01:10:52,869
I basically said these
are small little works
1304
01:10:52,903 --> 01:10:57,874
of no consequence, and I was
probably in graduate school
1305
01:10:58,530 --> 01:11:01,774
at the time and doing
things which I imagined
1306
01:11:01,809 --> 01:11:06,365
to be of enormous
consequence and I remember,
1307
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:08,194
it must have hurt a lot.
1308
01:11:08,229 --> 01:11:12,233
He looked at me and
all he said was,
1309
01:11:12,268 --> 01:11:14,373
"You don't want to know
1310
01:11:14,408 --> 01:11:16,410
"what I'm thinking about you
right now."
1311
01:11:17,514 --> 01:11:21,207
And I'd like to say, because
I was in my early 30s
1312
01:11:21,242 --> 01:11:24,418
when he died, I'd like to
say that we had repaired
1313
01:11:24,452 --> 01:11:28,491
our relationship by then,
but it wouldn't be true.
1314
01:11:42,608 --> 01:11:44,679
- And then I found out that
Alvin Schwartz
1315
01:11:44,714 --> 01:11:49,719
had been invited to come to
our young author's conference
1316
01:11:50,029 --> 01:11:53,343
and I said, "Well, I would
certainly like to meet the man
1317
01:11:53,378 --> 01:11:55,725
"to ask him that
question, do you feel
1318
01:11:55,759 --> 01:12:00,246
"that these are appropriate
for our age group,
1319
01:12:00,281 --> 01:12:02,697
"for five to 11-year-olds?"
1320
01:12:02,732 --> 01:12:04,803
But then he got sick
and passed away,
1321
01:12:04,837 --> 01:12:07,978
so I never did get
to ask that question.
1322
01:12:08,013 --> 01:12:09,704
I don't feel that it is.
1323
01:12:09,739 --> 01:12:14,571
I've seen so much of the
violence
1324
01:12:14,606 --> 01:12:16,021
that was also in these books.
1325
01:12:16,055 --> 01:12:18,817
It think it's
affected our society.
1326
01:12:18,851 --> 01:12:22,752
I don't want to blame
all of the violence,
1327
01:12:22,786 --> 01:12:25,444
but it's like, it made it okay.
1328
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:27,550
I guess I would ask
Peter the same question.
1329
01:12:27,584 --> 01:12:30,898
How do you feel that it's age
appropriate
1330
01:12:30,932 --> 01:12:33,176
for elementary school level?
1331
01:12:46,879 --> 01:12:48,467
- Oh, it has this wrapper on it.
1332
01:12:51,194 --> 01:12:52,644
Just unwrap it. - Yeah.
1333
01:12:56,751 --> 01:12:57,545
Can I?
1334
01:12:57,580 --> 01:12:58,581
I need to start.
1335
01:12:58,615 --> 01:12:59,661
Let's just start.
- I'm actually channeling
1336
01:12:59,685 --> 01:13:00,548
my father right now.
- Let's start.
1337
01:13:00,583 --> 01:13:03,171
- He would have
been a wreck doing this.
1338
01:13:06,485 --> 01:13:10,075
Sandy was like, the
spearhead of this movement
1339
01:13:10,109 --> 01:13:13,837
in Kirkland 25 years ago
and it was almost 25 years
1340
01:13:13,872 --> 01:13:16,012
to the day that they
had their hearing
1341
01:13:16,046 --> 01:13:19,602
which I know the Seattle
Times when they wrote about it
1342
01:13:19,636 --> 01:13:21,707
talked about the
length of the hearing,
1343
01:13:21,742 --> 01:13:24,952
which was like seven
hours was a scary story,
1344
01:13:24,986 --> 01:13:26,988
terrifying in itself that people
1345
01:13:27,023 --> 01:13:28,334
would have to sit through that.
1346
01:13:28,369 --> 01:13:30,406
So I'm really interested
in all the time
1347
01:13:30,440 --> 01:13:33,685
that's passed to recapture
some of the energy
1348
01:13:33,719 --> 01:13:35,756
and the concerns.
1349
01:13:38,966 --> 01:13:39,932
Hi, Sandy.
1350
01:13:39,967 --> 01:13:40,761
- Hi.
- I'm Peter Schwartz.
1351
01:13:40,795 --> 01:13:42,141
- Hi Peter.
- Nice to meet you.
1352
01:13:42,176 --> 01:13:43,108
- Nice to meet you, too.
1353
01:13:43,142 --> 01:13:44,109
- Yeah, thank you so much for
coming up.
1354
01:13:44,143 --> 01:13:46,076
- Yeah, sure!
- It's great
1355
01:13:46,111 --> 01:13:47,250
to have you come up
1356
01:13:47,284 --> 01:13:50,322
and it's kind of amazing after
25 years.
1357
01:13:50,356 --> 01:13:53,601
- I know, I know.
- And I would love
1358
01:13:53,636 --> 01:13:58,641
to learn more about
your experience
1359
01:13:59,020 --> 01:14:02,230
and how it seems to you now
from this distance in time
1360
01:14:02,265 --> 01:14:05,061
and what you were
thinking or what made you
1361
01:14:05,095 --> 01:14:08,098
decide to come up.
- I think because I felt
1362
01:14:08,133 --> 01:14:11,170
like the whole story
hadn't been told.
1363
01:14:11,205 --> 01:14:15,036
Being parents, the
schools are always asking
1364
01:14:15,071 --> 01:14:18,108
for our opinion on how
do you feel about this
1365
01:14:18,143 --> 01:14:20,732
or at the end of the year
or during conferences,
1366
01:14:20,766 --> 01:14:23,148
is there anything
we can do better?
1367
01:14:23,182 --> 01:14:25,564
But then when we
actually say something,
1368
01:14:25,599 --> 01:14:29,016
I feel like they're like,
we don't want to know.
1369
01:14:29,050 --> 01:14:32,329
I got phone calls from parents.
1370
01:14:32,364 --> 01:14:34,780
That's how I initially
found out about the books
1371
01:14:34,815 --> 01:14:37,265
because the kids are talking
about this
1372
01:14:37,300 --> 01:14:38,508
on the playground.
1373
01:14:38,543 --> 01:14:40,752
They're upset about it.
1374
01:14:40,786 --> 01:14:45,204
It's not that I want
them banned or censored
1375
01:14:45,239 --> 01:14:47,897
or whatever, I just don't
think they're age appropriate
1376
01:14:47,931 --> 01:14:49,864
for elementary school children.
1377
01:14:50,900 --> 01:14:52,798
That is my question to you,
1378
01:14:52,833 --> 01:14:55,387
do you feel that
they're age appropriate?
1379
01:14:57,044 --> 01:15:02,049
- Well that's, I mean, it's
a really good question.
1380
01:15:02,394 --> 01:15:05,777
I don't have a single
answer, but I do understand
1381
01:15:05,811 --> 01:15:07,779
the concern and the kids
that talk about it now
1382
01:15:07,813 --> 01:15:09,297
are the ones that
remember it as like,
1383
01:15:09,332 --> 01:15:14,337
as some of them I remember
said in the Kirkland situation
1384
01:15:14,751 --> 01:15:15,925
that these are the books
1385
01:15:15,959 --> 01:15:18,272
that got them
excited about reading.
1386
01:15:18,306 --> 01:15:20,412
Kids don't read as
much as they used to.
1387
01:15:20,446 --> 01:15:21,655
That is very upsetting to me.
1388
01:15:21,689 --> 01:15:23,173
I don't care what they read.
1389
01:15:23,208 --> 01:15:25,106
I'd rather they
read than just be...
1390
01:15:25,141 --> 01:15:28,593
- Ah, my grandsons love books.
- That's huge!
1391
01:15:28,627 --> 01:15:30,664
- You're a censor,
your a book fan,
1392
01:15:30,698 --> 01:15:33,321
or whatever, you don't really
want to hear
1393
01:15:33,356 --> 01:15:35,945
what our true feelings were.
1394
01:15:35,979 --> 01:15:39,120
- He had always had an
academic perspective on them.
1395
01:15:39,155 --> 01:15:42,261
He, I think, loved the
attention that he got
1396
01:15:42,296 --> 01:15:44,574
and the illustrations are
brilliant,
1397
01:15:44,609 --> 01:15:46,783
but in many ways.
- They're frightening.
1398
01:15:46,818 --> 01:15:47,784
They were frightening.
- Yeah, they were terrifying,
1399
01:15:47,819 --> 01:15:49,027
but I mean, he's a genius.
1400
01:15:49,061 --> 01:15:51,408
And when you give your
kids over to a school
1401
01:15:51,443 --> 01:15:54,791
and we have a crisis of
institutional legitimacy
1402
01:15:54,826 --> 01:15:57,829
these days where everybody's
saying all of our public
1403
01:15:57,863 --> 01:16:01,487
institutions have failed,
and how do you balance
1404
01:16:01,522 --> 01:16:04,456
the issue of decision
making and control?
1405
01:16:04,490 --> 01:16:08,356
But a lot of it had
to do with people
1406
01:16:08,391 --> 01:16:13,361
who were saying it was
satanic or that there was,
1407
01:16:14,984 --> 01:16:17,503
it was not so much about
what's age appropriate
1408
01:16:17,538 --> 01:16:21,024
as that this is stuff
that is contaminating,
1409
01:16:21,059 --> 01:16:23,440
it contaminates
our entire culture,
1410
01:16:23,475 --> 01:16:27,375
our heritage,
our religious beliefs.
1411
01:16:27,410 --> 01:16:31,345
It's an offense to our
existence.
1412
01:16:31,379 --> 01:16:33,485
- I know that there
was a couple of people
1413
01:16:33,519 --> 01:16:38,524
that brought it up, the demonic,
and I guess I don't know
1414
01:16:39,629 --> 01:16:42,045
why that's even in there.
1415
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:45,048
To me, it's like why
do you want to even?
1416
01:16:45,083 --> 01:16:50,088
But if it was folklore, it
was just to me a lot of evil.
1417
01:16:52,297 --> 01:16:54,713
- I think he also felt
like he had an obligation
1418
01:16:55,956 --> 01:17:00,961
to kind of preserve
them in written form
1419
01:17:01,651 --> 01:17:06,173
and without judging him, I
don't think he was thinking
1420
01:17:06,207 --> 01:17:11,212
a lot about the impact they
would have in particular ways
1421
01:17:11,454 --> 01:17:12,731
on particular people.
1422
01:17:12,766 --> 01:17:14,906
I think they were really
interesting to him
1423
01:17:17,253 --> 01:17:18,471
as a reflection of how we manage
1424
01:17:18,495 --> 01:17:21,844
and think about anxieties and
how we address the problem
1425
01:17:21,878 --> 01:17:24,467
of evil because there
is evil in the world.
1426
01:17:24,501 --> 01:17:26,376
My dad, I think, was
really good at what he did.
1427
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:29,955
He had a journalist
background and really cared
1428
01:17:29,990 --> 01:17:34,684
a lot about getting the story
right and about research.
1429
01:17:34,719 --> 01:17:37,998
He was a craftsman
when it came to words
1430
01:17:38,032 --> 01:17:40,656
and this is out there,
this is stuff
1431
01:17:40,690 --> 01:17:42,737
where it's on the kinds of
margins of our consciousness
1432
01:17:42,761 --> 01:17:45,212
where we think about
really important issues
1433
01:17:45,246 --> 01:17:48,456
of who we are,
what it means to be human
1434
01:17:48,491 --> 01:17:52,598
and what it means to die
and where does danger exist
1435
01:17:52,633 --> 01:17:54,531
and how do we think
about it and do with it
1436
01:17:54,566 --> 01:17:55,886
and these are things
that all kids
1437
01:17:55,912 --> 01:17:58,363
need to think about.
- And I understand
1438
01:17:58,397 --> 01:18:00,399
that.
1439
01:18:20,730 --> 01:18:24,700
- In fact, we don't talk about
reading very much anymore
1440
01:18:24,734 --> 01:18:26,805
and how much
reading means to us.
1441
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:28,773
Talking about reading
is difficult for people
1442
01:18:28,807 --> 01:18:31,258
because reading is such
a personalized process,
1443
01:18:31,292 --> 01:18:34,433
but in fact, the way
you see how much reading
1444
01:18:34,468 --> 01:18:35,756
means to someone
is if you're trying
1445
01:18:35,780 --> 01:18:37,540
to take it away from them.
1446
01:18:41,786 --> 01:18:45,237
- When he died, he had achieved
a fair amount of success
1447
01:18:45,272 --> 01:18:48,896
and was pretty well
known in the little world
1448
01:18:48,931 --> 01:18:53,936
he was part of, but there
was almost no one at his,
1449
01:18:55,489 --> 01:19:00,494
we had a graveside service
and there were probably
1450
01:19:03,393 --> 01:19:05,602
only like 15 people there, max.
1451
01:19:05,637 --> 01:19:09,365
I mean, his family, he
didn't have a community
1452
01:19:09,399 --> 01:19:11,885
to mourn for him in the sense
that I think
1453
01:19:11,919 --> 01:19:17,304
a lot of people do.
1454
01:19:17,338 --> 01:19:21,687
But he was able, it really
was a surprise to me,
1455
01:19:22,343 --> 01:19:26,934
but he was able to leave
despite that, quite a legacy.
1456
01:20:03,005 --> 01:20:05,283
- We were thinking of an
idea that we could use
1457
01:20:05,317 --> 01:20:08,148
and I came up with
the idea like man,
1458
01:20:08,182 --> 01:20:11,392
Scary Stories, everybody
loves these like, everybody.
1459
01:20:11,427 --> 01:20:14,085
I mean, people in my
family, all of my friends,
1460
01:20:14,119 --> 01:20:16,052
we all loved this book.
1461
01:20:16,087 --> 01:20:19,262
I saw so much interest,
so many people sharing it,
1462
01:20:19,297 --> 01:20:21,575
so many people liking it,
so many people commenting
1463
01:20:21,609 --> 01:20:24,164
like, this is amazing,
this is amazing.
1464
01:20:24,198 --> 01:20:26,649
You still see it to this day
1465
01:20:26,683 --> 01:20:28,582
as far as influence on
musicians,
1466
01:20:28,616 --> 01:20:33,483
you see it in movies,
you see it in artists.
1467
01:20:33,518 --> 01:20:36,141
I mean, it was a huge
deal and I think it still
1468
01:20:36,176 --> 01:20:37,349
is a huge deal.
1469
01:20:37,384 --> 01:20:38,834
- You know,
what life is all about,
1470
01:20:38,868 --> 01:20:41,353
just the dark aspects and I
don't think it's a bad thing.
1471
01:20:41,388 --> 01:20:45,150
You grow out
of it and you love it.
1472
01:20:45,185 --> 01:20:46,255
You really appreciate it.
1473
01:20:46,289 --> 01:20:48,188
- You should be a
little scared, you know?
1474
01:20:48,222 --> 01:20:50,673
There should be some kind
of excitement between that.
1475
01:20:50,707 --> 01:20:53,020
I mean, if everything's just
handed to you
1476
01:20:53,055 --> 01:20:55,505
and sugar coat it, how
do you take on the world?
1477
01:20:55,540 --> 01:20:57,542
That's just like, 'cause
it needs to be striking.
1478
01:20:57,576 --> 01:20:58,657
That's how we
remember it to this day.
1479
01:20:58,681 --> 01:21:00,717
- When we started
doing this event
1480
01:21:00,752 --> 01:21:02,236
and even up until recently,
1481
01:21:02,271 --> 01:21:05,446
when I was sharing
on websites and man,
1482
01:21:05,481 --> 01:21:10,141
in minutes, the status were
being shared all over the place.
1483
01:21:10,175 --> 01:21:13,903
I've read people asking
to take this exhibit
1484
01:21:13,938 --> 01:21:16,423
to Dallas, to take it to
Houston.
1485
01:21:16,457 --> 01:21:19,150
I've seen people, why don't
you take it to California?
1486
01:21:19,184 --> 01:21:20,392
It's mind blowing.
1487
01:21:20,427 --> 01:21:25,328
This isn't a little thing,
this is huge, this is worldwide
1488
01:21:26,088 --> 01:21:31,093
and it's amazing,
it really is amazing.
1489
01:21:31,127 --> 01:21:36,201
I can't believe it's been
so long and yet people
1490
01:21:36,236 --> 01:21:38,824
love these books, they love
these stories,
1491
01:21:38,859 --> 01:21:40,102
they love this artwork.
1492
01:21:40,136 --> 01:21:43,622
It's just honestly, it's
never gonna go away.
1493
01:21:43,646 --> 01:21:46,646
Subtitles Diego Moraes(oakislandtk)
www.opensubtitles.org
1493
01:21:47,305 --> 01:22:47,320
Please rate this subtitle at www.osdb.link/78f2b
Help other users to choose the best subtitles